From: Yuan Fu <casouri@gmail.com>
To: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>
Cc: help-gnu-emacs <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>,
Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Subject: Re: Someone start maintaining luddites.el
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2021 14:00:39 -0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <A7ACE9BD-1462-423F-AE32-B71061008B01@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87ee5vu5sa.fsf@yahoo.com>
I think it will be good if we focus on discussing whether adding such a feature would harm Emacs, in the form of changing default values too soon. And I’ll save some typing and not reply to your concerns that I think doesn’t contribute to that topic.
>
>> Even if you don’t read NEWS, you know what the mode does: it keeps
>> Emacs behave the same as it currently is. So you shouldn’t need to
>> remember or read or understand anything. And again, if you don’t like
>> it, you don’t have to use it. So I don’t think it adds any burden to
>> you.
>
> No, I'll have to read the antinews in order to come to an intelligent
> decision as to whether or not it should be enabled.
>
>> I think the effectiveness of this mode, in terms of support of adding
>> changes, would be equivalent to “you can add a line of code to .emacs
>> to revert it”. Ie, not much different from the status quo. It’s just
>> AFTER the change is made, one’s life is easier if he decides that he
>> don’t want any of that.
>
> That's extra trouble for everyone, and you still haven't demonstrated
> why someone won't say:
>
> Let's set indent-tabs-mode to nil by default, people can just revert
> it by turning on luddites-mode.
>
> Or something to that effect.
People now says "Let's set indent-tabs-mode to nil by default, people can just revert it by adding a line in init.el”, don’t they? luddites-mode doesn’t change anything, in particular, it doesn’t make anything worse.
>
>> If a variable is removed, we can’t help it. But if it is removed,
>> there must be very good reason to do so and it must has been obsoleted
>> for many years, ie, it’s due time. If it is just obsolete, resetting
>> it shouldn’t hurt anything.
>
> But one will have to
Have to what?
>
>>> Then let's see which causes the smallest mob of people who complain.
>
>> I don’t quite understand that. What are you referring to as “which”?
>
> "Which one of the options that people are complaining about"
I’m pointing out that there is no definitive answer to when a thing is due to change, so “change when its due” is not a good solution. Now you are saying “let people discuss and come to agreement”, that’s not the same as “change when it's due”. But I guess that’s not relavent to the current topic of “whether luddites-mode hurts Emacs”.
>
>> They are equivalent, but a switch is more convenient. The whole point
>> (I think) is that it’s equivalent to adding code to init.el, but more
>> convenient: you don’t need to figure out what code to add, you don’t
>> need to maintain the code, you don’t need to remember what that code
>> does and why it is added, etc.
>
> As I said, you will have to understand _all_ of what changed in order to
> make an intelligent decision to turn it on or off, whereas without such
> a feature, people can just individually revert the changes that cause
> them inconvenience.
>
Yuan
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-12-31 22:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 28+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-12-27 18:19 Kill all proportional fonts! Colin Baxter 😺
2021-12-27 18:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-12-28 6:21 ` Colin Baxter 😺
2021-12-27 19:59 ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-12-28 6:25 ` Colin Baxter 😺
2021-12-28 7:32 ` Colin Baxter 😺
2021-12-28 7:51 ` tomas
2021-12-28 8:00 ` Po Lu
2021-12-28 8:31 ` tomas
2021-12-28 9:38 ` Po Lu
2021-12-28 10:13 ` tomas
2021-12-28 19:02 ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-12-28 19:35 ` Someone start maintaining luddites.el Teemu Likonen
2021-12-28 19:45 ` Colin Baxter 😺
2021-12-28 22:44 ` Fu Yuan
2021-12-28 23:40 ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-12-29 0:58 ` Fu Yuan
2021-12-29 4:48 ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-12-29 6:13 ` Po Lu
2021-12-29 6:51 ` Yuan Fu
2021-12-29 7:05 ` Po Lu
2021-12-29 8:06 ` Yuan Fu
2021-12-29 9:19 ` Po Lu
2021-12-31 22:00 ` Yuan Fu [this message]
2022-01-01 0:05 ` Po Lu
2021-12-29 11:41 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-12-31 21:49 ` Yuan Fu
2021-12-31 15:03 ` Kill all proportional fonts! Ken Goldman
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