From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Xah Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: What does 'run' do in cperl-mode? Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 05:05:21 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: <9112b1c4-716c-447d-a6e4-299ca7c3e252@v13g2000pro.googlegroups.com> References: <0ded5ecd-f5f6-4a8e-9d19-f61bf0401022@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com> <86hcad9ar4.fsf@lifelogs.com> <0bb45e96-f9f3-4451-a457-004bb5930c76@p10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <927b0c4a-3de2-4be5-b86a-7ffacc4d718e@v1g2000pra.googlegroups.com> <88821130-f989-49ac-b8b1-e3cb2f5c5271@1g2000pre.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1217335245 1187 80.91.229.12 (29 Jul 2008 12:40:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:40:45 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 29 14:41:34 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KNoWD-00033Z-Bl for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:41:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48853 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KNoVJ-0001xd-7s for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:40:37 -0400 Original-Path: news.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!v13g2000pro.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 79 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.6.97.120 Original-X-Trace: posting.google.com 1217333121 2089 127.0.0.1 (29 Jul 2008 12:05:21 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:05:21 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: v13g2000pro.googlegroups.com; posting-host=24.6.97.120; posting-account=bRPKjQoAAACxZsR8_VPXCX27T2YcsyMA User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X 10_4_11; en) AppleWebKit/525.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.2 Safari/525.22, gzip(gfe), gzip(gfe) Original-Xref: news.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:160676 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:56024 Archived-At: On Jul 29, 4:13 am, Nikolaj Schumacher wrote: > XahLee wrote: > > I just might down the road start my own emacs cult... creating a emacs > > distro that's just my ideal of what functional, BEST efficient, > > software should be like.[SNIP] > > > The most effective way to make such change, is just have a capable > > coder and fork it, like Xemacs and Aquamacs did. > > Please do. I don't think it's the best way to make such a change, but > it is the most effective (and perhaps only) way of proving your point: > That users want this. I hope you are not suggesting that my suggestions are totally fringe thus needs to see the light to be proven. (after all my effort in explation here) If any suggestion in the human world needs to be proven first, nothing can move forward. thanks for agreeing though. We agreed on something! > Just make sure you stay as compatible as possible so that no work is > lost. > > > So, either i try to spend tons of time to be the salesman for emacs > > modernization, or i actually take things into my hands and start my > > own emacs distro. > > Exactly. Plus, nobody really likes salespeople. :) > > > The actually coding part for the latter will prob be dwarfed by all > > the associated tasks of running a website with public annoucement and > > communities etc. > > If you think there are enough users out there, you should be able to > find contributors. After all you do believe a majority preferred > modernization, right? Yes, contributors will come. Still, a couple years of full time job to get it going is still there. Xemacs, started as Lucid Emacs, was run by a commercial company Lucid Inc in the Lisp machine and Artificial Intelligence days (1980s), and the company's eventual commercial goal, was to produce a commercial IDE for C++, based on emacs. The collaboration with GNU Emacs, mainly Richard M Stallman (RMS), finally can't work out for multitudes of reasons that are often attributed to RMS's character and GNU project's snail speed. Thus the fork. Aquamacs, in comparison to Xemacs in its historical context some 20 years ago, is really just few trivial UI changes. (the changes in aquamacs in comparison to Xemacs back then, in terms of manpower, is perhaps 10 or 100 times smaller.) Nevertheless, it took the Aquamacs guy quite few years to come into shape, and he's not shy about asking for donations in every release. One way you can help the cause, is by helping to dispell myths. (the usual term used among tech geekers today is =E2=80=9Ccontructive criticism welcome=E2=80=9D). So, whenever this argument about modernization of emacs comes up, and if you think there are valid points in this, you can help by discussing facts, being positive in general and stay on topic. (as opposed to, say, saying it's wrong place to discuss, or =E2=80=9Cit'll never work=E2=80=9D, or =E2=80=9Cprove it!=E2=80=9D, or =E2=80=9Cwhy don't = you fork it=E2=80=9D, or suggestions about how fork should be done, etc.) Thanks. Xah =E2=88=91 http://xahlee.org/ =E2=98=84