From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: tota_ram@india.com (Swami Tota Ram Shankar) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Let ANGLO SAXON BEAR THE COST OF MISUNDERSTANDING - FREE THE HMONG NOW Date: 2 Dec 2004 15:00:12 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: <8d0c68d1.0412021500.41bebf3d@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1102028738 20592 80.91.229.6 (2 Dec 2004 23:05:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 23:05:38 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 03 00:05:24 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Ca00o-0006Ax-00 for ; Fri, 03 Dec 2004 00:05:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Ca0AN-0006Uk-Aa for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 18:15:15 -0500 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++, comp.unix.shell, comp.unix.programmer, comp.lang.c, gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 167 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 200.67.76.170 Original-X-Trace: posting.google.com 1102028413 10988 127.0.0.1 (2 Dec 2004 23:00:13 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 23:00:13 +0000 (UTC) Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu comp.lang.c++:805127 comp.unix.shell:170744 comp.unix.programmer:171528 comp.lang.c:677136 gnu.emacs.help:127113 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:22529 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:22529 LET THE ANGLO-SAXON BEAR THE COST OF CULTURAL MISUNDERSTANDING - FREE THE HMONG NOW Message-ID: <8d0c68d1.0412021305.4b665f2c@posting.google.com> Why does every race have to bear the cost of cultural misunderstanding and racism by the anglo-yankee white bastard ? Indians (Natives) paid with their own genocide. Blacks paid with slavery and getting flogged, raped, lynched and so on. Hmong and Hindus and Sikhs paying with the daily racism. Chinese, Vietnamese and many others paying with discrimination. Why race talk is taboo???!!! To suppress discussion of anglo-saxon racism which cannot be discussed in any other way other than in these words. In India we have polygamy. Hindu Kings had many wives. Sikh Maharajas had many wives. Ordinary people had multiple wives. This is Indian culture. If the anglo-saxon cannot tolerate more than one wife let him have one. We all know half of anglos are bastards. Their king charles cheated on his wife diana. And diana had abortion. Newt Gingrich cheated. Their church is fuck of child molesters. Apply this monogamy law to anglo, not to others. This six person murder is from cultural misunderstanding, and wide spread prevalent racism. Let the anglo race bear its price. Furthermore, George Bush and white strategy of appointing crooked, corrupt, puppet minorities to high offices will be interpreted as racism and not the contrary. Condoleeza rice is not black - in her outlook or the circle she associates in. If any is black, it is Jesse Jackson. ========== Posted on Wed, Dec. 01, 2004 Some minority hunters face racial confrontations in woods BY ERIC SHARP Knight Ridder Newspapers DETROIT - (KRT) - Last week's column about the six hunters killed in Wisconsin brought a lot of e-mails and telephone calls from black hunters in Michigan. A Hmong immigrant was charged with the shootings, and the black hunters didn't condone them. But they said they had been subjected to the same racist slurs and threats that might have triggered the Asian man's rampage. I don't doubt those stories because I have been with white hunters who made racist comments when we saw black hunters in the fields. What really amazes me is how white hunters born and raised in northern Michigan, where they grew up with almost no contact with black people, are often as racist as any Ku Klux Klan member born and raised in the black belts of Mississippi or Alabama. It was interesting that most of the black callers thought I was automatically accepting the word of the surviving white hunters, who said there was no reason for the killings and denied that anyone on their side made any racial slurs. The truth is I have no idea what happened other than what I've learned by reading the accounts of the incident and talking to people who probably don't know much more than I do. And while I don't want to seem like a bleeding-heart liberal apologist for bad acts by the racially oppressed, I have learned enough about Hmong-white relations across this country in the last week that I would give 6-1 that one of the white hunters did say something nasty, and this time he said it to the wrong guy. Chai Vang, the 36-year-old Laotian immigrant charged with killing six people and wounding two more in what began as a trespassing dispute, comes from a culture with a long tradition of hunting but no tradition of game laws, bag limits and formal hunting seasons as they are understood by Americans. That lack of understanding has created resentment among some hunters, who say the Asians are notorious poachers and game violators and often trash rural areas with litter and garbage. Chai Vang once was ticketed by a Minnesota game warden for a fishing violation, taking 93 crappies above the legal limit. The Hmong are here because they were armed and trained by us to fight on the American side during the Vietnam War. They have a long tradition as fighters and their courage was legendary, and sometimes so was their savagery. When we decided to bug out, so did many of the Hmong. Police in Wisconsin said Vang admitted the shootings, but they still don't understand why he climbed down from the tree stand where he was trespassing, methodically removed the telescopic sight from his SKS rifle and shot at the other hunters until the 20-shot clip was empty. Several black hunters in Michigan said the police need look no further than the racist epithets that Vang said the white hunters unleashed on him when they found him on their land. He also claimed that the white hunters were the first to fire a shot at him, something the two survivors denied. It might turn out that Vang was an isolated nutcase. With more than 186,000 Hmong in the U.S., as of the 2000 census, and about 40,000 of them in Wisconsin and Minnesota, there is as much potential for violence perpetuated by a few deranged or evil people among the Hmong as among any other group. But the more I read about the tension between the Hmong community and its white neighbors in Minnesota and Wisconsin, the more I understand the feelings of the black hunters who called. Several of the black hunters said they had been in situations through the years where white hunters leveled guns at them or even fired shots nearby. "I was rabbit hunting with a black friend near Newaygo a few years ago when we met a group of six white guys who were rabbit hunting, too," said one black man, who, like the others, asked that his name not be used. "Three of them started on us right away, asking what we were doing in their hunting place, and why didn't we stay in Detroit where we belonged. "The other three white guys didn't say anything, just stood there. One of the loudmouths told us that we had better leave if we knew what was good for us. We were on public land, and I was so mad I was about ready to make a stand. But my friend is a lot cooler head, and he said that it wasn't worth it and we should just go. So we left, and as we walked back to the car, I could hear three loudmouths laughing and calling us every nasty name you can think of and saying how we better never come back if we knew what was good for us. I wasn't ready to go kill them all because of what they said, but can you imagine how I felt?" If white and black Americans still feel those tensions after living side-by-side for nearly 400 years, how do we adjust to a people as exotic as the Hmong? One problem is that many Third World people have such a tough time surviving day-to-day that they haven't had the luxury of developing a strong conservation ethic. A few years ago in San Francisco, police found Hmong with handmade bows and arrows hunting squirrels, marmots and other furry critters year-round in Golden Gate Park. When they were ticketed, the Hmong couldn't understand why anyone would deny them such a bounty. Though there is real and sometimes justified resentment from white hunters for what they see as unethical hunting practices by the Hmong, you only need to talk to a Wisconsin or Minnesota hunter for a few minutes before the criticisms change from hunting activities to social issues like polygamy and marrying girls at 13 and 14, practices many whites think are common among the Asian immigrants. And you only need to talk to black hunters in Michigan for the same amount of time to hear stories about confrontations with whites that had the same potential for violence that we saw in Wisconsin. This one should be a lesson to every hunter. 2004, Detroit Free Press. Visit the Freep, the World Wide Web site of the Detroit Free Press, at http://www.freep.com. Distributed by Knight Ridder/Tribune Information Services.