From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Xah Lee Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: What does 'run' do in cperl-mode? Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:54:35 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: <88821130-f989-49ac-b8b1-e3cb2f5c5271@1g2000pre.googlegroups.com> References: <0ded5ecd-f5f6-4a8e-9d19-f61bf0401022@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com> <86hcad9ar4.fsf@lifelogs.com> <0bb45e96-f9f3-4451-a457-004bb5930c76@p10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <927b0c4a-3de2-4be5-b86a-7ffacc4d718e@v1g2000pra.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1217288448 8907 80.91.229.12 (28 Jul 2008 23:40:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:40:48 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 29 01:41:37 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KNcLL-0004kh-Jc for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 01:41:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37765 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KNcKR-0004jc-Es for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:40:35 -0400 Original-Path: news.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!1g2000pre.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 71 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.6.97.120 Original-X-Trace: posting.google.com 1217285675 16652 127.0.0.1 (28 Jul 2008 22:54:35 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 22:54:35 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: 1g2000pre.googlegroups.com; posting-host=24.6.97.120; posting-account=qPxGtQkAAADb6PWdLGiWVucht1ZDR6fn User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X 10_4_11; en) AppleWebKit/525.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.2 Safari/525.22, gzip(gfe), gzip(gfe) Original-Xref: news.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:160660 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:56008 Archived-At: On Jul 28, 3:14 pm, Nikolaj Schumacher wrote: > XahLee wrote: > > By the way, it's a classic netiquette that chiding for off topicality > > is in general not a good thing. Namely, if this channel is not for > > feature suggestion, nor is it for telling others it is not. Because, > > that usually leads to more argument. Btw, the netquette is in one of > > the RFC. > > Why would I intend less argument? > Really, I do want this topic to be explored and I'm not disregarding it > at all. I am merely saying it should be discussed with participation of > the developers. The only way of "succeeding" is going through them, > anyway. And it seems unfair to bring up the issue here, where they > can't comment on why things have stayed the way they are. thanks for encouraging the discussion. No, i don't think discussing here will make emacs change. However, i do think it does help make problems visible. I mean, the visibility will be increased, so developers are more likely to know about this issue whether they agree it's a prob or not. After all, many emacs developers read here i was told. > Maybe the > only reason some parts of Emacs haven't been updated is because of > missing man power. Who knows? Maybe you can start on those 4 hours of > query-replace, then. Thanks for the encouragement. I just might down the road start my own emacs cult... creating a emacs distro that's just my ideal of what functional, BEST efficient, software should be like. I have actually thought about this several times in the past year. For one thing, it's very difficult to change GNU Emacs on issues such as these. The most effective way to make such change, is just have a capable coder and fork it, like Xemacs and Aquamacs did. Then, it'll wipe out emacs marketshare almost overnight. Then, the GNU Emacs people will, without any asking, seriously do all the changes, as it happened with Xemacs. (in my opinion, Xemacs is largely responsible for propelling user oriennted features we see in emacs today, took emacs about a decade to catch up.) So, either i try to spend tons of time to be the salesman for emacs modernization, or i actually take things into my hands and start my own emacs distro. The actually coding part for the latter will prob be dwarfed by all the associated tasks of running a website with public annoucement and communities etc. When i run my own emacs distro, info doc will be considered supplementary to html/xhtml. HTML will be the primary doc format, with its 1000 times more user base and tools and perhaps 10 times more technically powerful and flexible. But likely the html will still be generated by texinfo. Doc in info format will still be used i think, since it's a beautiful plain text hyperlink doc system. (ok, i'm allowed to have some wild future vision here...) PS one element that came to me i missed in the discussion of the labor of using the Alt+=E2=80=B9key=E2=80=BA notation in emacs is that the notati= on should also show in menus, of course. (as opposed to just changing the info doc) I haven't looked at coding menus in elisp... would it be just change one source code location for keybinding display and all menus of every mode will display using the =E2=80=9CAlt+=E2=80=B9key=E2=80=BA=E2= =80=9D notation? Xah =E2=88=91 http://xahlee.org/ =E2=98=84