Re: a dark theme?

Re: a dark theme?

[Emanuel Berg]

Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:

> I'm hoping that someone can advise me, I'm looking
> for a theme to use with emacs and gnus which has a
> dark background, but also allows me to read all the
> text in a gmail which currently appears as
> nearly-white on a slightly-grey background.

"All the text in a gmail"?

To get a default bright-on-dark "theme" (which I highly
recommend to reduce eye strain) simply evaluate this:

(set-face-attribute 'default nil
                    :foreground "cyan"
                    :background "black"
                    :bold nil)

Change "cyan" to whatever fits you the best. I use a
Linux VT/tty/"the console" and you probably use X. That
means I can't help you with the colors, but try
"green", "blue", etc. See if you can find something you
like; if not, dig deeper. Probably you don't won't bold
for ordinary text, save that option for faces that
highlight stuff (headers, keywords, and so on).

If you run into some text that you don't like the color
of, use this defun to identify the face:

(defun what-face (pos)
  (interactive "d")
  (let ((face (or (get-char-property (point) 'read-face-name)
                  (get-char-property (point) 'face))))
    (if face (message " Face: %s" face)
      (message " No face at %d." pos) )))

Put it in an init file, for example ~/.emacs. Then
invoke it with `M-x what-face' with point at the face
you don't like the color of. This will show you what
face it is. Then do as above again, only substitute
'default for the face you found. Note that several
modes/modules of Emacs uses the same faces. So if it
looks great with brown somewhere, it might not look as
great somewhere else, and of course, if you change it
again, the first place may look less good! In practice,
this is seldom or never a problem. If it is, it is
solvable but I never got to that. Just go for what
sticks out in a pleasant way, it should work
everywhere. Where applicable, put some thought into it:
with programming, the `font-lock-comment-face'
shouldn't be as bright and emphasized as
`font-lock-function-name-face' (because people
comment-out stuff, and read comments only as a
secondary measure, when they don't immediately
understand the code), what's more, perhaps red is a
natural color for `font-lock-warning-face', and so
on. But don't overthink it. Most important thing is it
should look clear, relaxed, and fun. Check out this
screenshot of a modest major-mode a once did. That's
how I like it. Obviously I didn't intellectualize every
singly color I put to use. It is still very pleasant to
work in such a mode - like a night club :) [1]

> I've recently been using aalto-dark, aalto-light,
> adwaita, alect-black-alt, tsdh-dark and all have
> failed the gmail test. I'm currently using tango,
> which is the complete reverse of what I'm looking
> for.

The problem with themes, which I didn't know existed
until this discussion by the way, is that you find one
mode, you like it to 80%, but not quite, so you look
for another, maybe you like that to 90%, and so
on. Instead of jumping between Emacs themes, Linux
distros, and so on, just put that time setting it up
the way you want it. Plain and simple. Time-consuming,
yes, but educational. Fun. And ultimately, much more
capable of getting not to 90% but (almost) all the way
(and those last percent missing not because some
perfect theme is eluding you, but because of your
current understanding and skills. Remember,
"Don't chase the dragon - become the dragon!"

[1] http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/fps/fpscalc.png

-- 
underground experts united

Re: a dark theme?

[Sharon Kimble]

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Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:
>
>> I'm hoping that someone can advise me, I'm looking
>> for a theme to use with emacs and gnus which has a
>> dark background, but also allows me to read all the
>> text in a gmail which currently appears as
>> nearly-white on a slightly-grey background.
>
> "All the text in a gmail"?
>
> To get a default bright-on-dark "theme" (which I highly
> recommend to reduce eye strain) simply evaluate this:
>
> (set-face-attribute 'default nil
>                     :foreground "cyan"
>                     :background "black"
>                     :bold nil)
>
> Change "cyan" to whatever fits you the best. I use a
> Linux VT/tty/"the console" and you probably use X. That
> means I can't help you with the colors, but try
> "green", "blue", etc. See if you can find something you
> like; if not, dig deeper. Probably you don't won't bold
> for ordinary text, save that option for faces that
> highlight stuff (headers, keywords, and so on).
>
> If you run into some text that you don't like the color
> of, use this defun to identify the face:
>
> (defun what-face (pos)
>   (interactive "d")
>   (let ((face (or (get-char-property (point) 'read-face-name)
>                   (get-char-property (point) 'face))))
>     (if face (message " Face: %s" face)
>       (message " No face at %d." pos) )))

Thanks for this Emanuel, I've doctored my init.el and put the above in
it, at the end, which is where I always put temporary/testing code,
unless it goes into my setup-testing.el. I then ran it when my mouse was
on the problem text in a gmail, and this is what it found -
╭────
│Face: ((:foreground #5e5e5e) (:foreground #5e5e5e) (:background #727272))
╰────

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but how can I customise that? Its got
no name or handle that I can hook on to!

Sharon.
>
> Put it in an init file, for example ~/.emacs. Then
> invoke it with `M-x what-face' with point at the face
> you don't like the color of. This will show you what
> face it is. Then do as above again, only substitute
> 'default for the face you found. Note that several
> modes/modules of Emacs uses the same faces. So if it
> looks great with brown somewhere, it might not look as
> great somewhere else, and of course, if you change it
> again, the first place may look less good! In practice,
> this is seldom or never a problem. If it is, it is
> solvable but I never got to that. Just go for what
> sticks out in a pleasant way, it should work
> everywhere. Where applicable, put some thought into it:
> with programming, the `font-lock-comment-face'
> shouldn't be as bright and emphasized as
> `font-lock-function-name-face' (because people
> comment-out stuff, and read comments only as a
> secondary measure, when they don't immediately
> understand the code), what's more, perhaps red is a
> natural color for `font-lock-warning-face', and so
> on. But don't overthink it. Most important thing is it
> should look clear, relaxed, and fun. Check out this
> screenshot of a modest major-mode a once did. That's
> how I like it. Obviously I didn't intellectualize every
> singly color I put to use. It is still very pleasant to
> work in such a mode - like a night club :) [1]
>
>> I've recently been using aalto-dark, aalto-light,
>> adwaita, alect-black-alt, tsdh-dark and all have
>> failed the gmail test. I'm currently using tango,
>> which is the complete reverse of what I'm looking
>> for.
>
> The problem with themes, which I didn't know existed
> until this discussion by the way, is that you find one
> mode, you like it to 80%, but not quite, so you look
> for another, maybe you like that to 90%, and so
> on. Instead of jumping between Emacs themes, Linux
> distros, and so on, just put that time setting it up
> the way you want it. Plain and simple. Time-consuming,
> yes, but educational. Fun. And ultimately, much more
> capable of getting not to 90% but (almost) all the way
> (and those last percent missing not because some
> perfect theme is eluding you, but because of your
> current understanding and skills. Remember,
> "Don't chase the dragon - become the dragon!"
>
> [1] http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/fps/fpscalc.png

-- 
A taste of linux = http://www.sharons.org.uk
my git repo = https://bitbucket.org/boudiccas/dots
TGmeds = http://www.tgmeds.org.uk
Debian testing, fluxbox 1.3.5, emacs 24.3.92.1

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Re: a dark theme?

[Glyn Millington]

Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:

> Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:
>
>> Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:
>>
>>> I'm hoping that someone can advise me, I'm looking
>>> for a theme to use with emacs and gnus which has a
>>> dark background, but also allows me to read all the
>>> text in a gmail which currently appears as
>>> nearly-white on a slightly-grey background.
>>
>> "All the text in a gmail"?
>>
>> To get a default bright-on-dark "theme" (which I highly
>> recommend to reduce eye strain) simply evaluate this:
>>
>> (set-face-attribute 'default nil
>>                     :foreground "cyan"
>>                     :background "black"
>>                     :bold nil)
>>
>> Change "cyan" to whatever fits you the best. I use a
>> Linux VT/tty/"the console" and you probably use X. That
>> means I can't help you with the colors, but try
>> "green", "blue", etc. See if you can find something you
>> like; if not, dig deeper. Probably you don't won't bold
>> for ordinary text, save that option for faces that
>> highlight stuff (headers, keywords, and so on).
>>
>> If you run into some text that you don't like the color
>> of, use this defun to identify the face:
>>
>> (defun what-face (pos)
>>   (interactive "d")
>>   (let ((face (or (get-char-property (point) 'read-face-name)
>>                   (get-char-property (point) 'face))))
>>     (if face (message " Face: %s" face)
>>       (message " No face at %d." pos) )))
>
> Thanks for this Emanuel, I've doctored my init.el and put the above in
> it, at the end, which is where I always put temporary/testing code,
> unless it goes into my setup-testing.el. I then ran it when my mouse was
> on the problem text in a gmail, and this is what it found -
> ╭────
> │Face: ((:foreground #5e5e5e) (:foreground #5e5e5e) (:background #727272))
> ╰────
>
> Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but how can I customise that? Its got
> no name or handle that I can hook on to!



This looks like rather hard work!

If you move the cursor to the text whose face you would like to customize
and do M-x customize-face, the emacs offers you the face at point to be
customized eg.

Customize face (default `gnus-cite-2'):

Just hit return  and you will be taken into the Customize menu for that
face.  Or  use that face name for the magic you want to work in init.el

Emacs 24.3.1 here on Linux


atb


Glyn

Re: a dark theme?

[Emanuel Berg]

Glyn Millington <glyn.millington@gmail.com> writes:

> This looks like rather hard work!
>
> If you move the cursor to the text whose face you
> would like to customize and do M-x customize-face,
> the emacs offers you the face at point to be
> customized eg.
>
> Customize face (default `gnus-cite-2')

An idiot can set the faces in Elisp (I think).

Baby steps first. And this is an especially good baby
step, because it gives instant feedback and is ideal
for experimentation and trying out new stuff: how the
editor responds to the edits and the evaluation...

This is hardly "rather hard work", it is pleasant,
interesting, low-intense work:

(set-face-attribute 'default nil
                    :foreground "cyan"
                    :background "black"
                    :bold nil)

But of course `customize-face' is there for anyone to
use, I already told my prefered way (and now twice) so
it is all fair this method also gets mentioned... Emacs
is not a religion (right?).
                    
-- 
underground experts united

Re: a dark theme?

[Glyn Millington]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> But of course `customize-face' is there for anyone to
> use, I already told my prefered way (and now twice) so
> it is all fair this method also gets mentioned... Emacs
> is not a religion (right?).


Blasphemer!! :-)

atb



Glyn

Re: a dark theme?

[Emanuel Berg]

Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:

> Thanks for this Emanuel, I've doctored my init.el and
> put the above in it, at the end, which is where I
> always put temporary/testing code, unless it goes
> into my setup-testing.el. I then ran it when my mouse
> was on the problem text in a gmail, and this is what
> it found - ╭──── │Face: ((:foreground #5e5e5e)
> (:foreground #5e5e5e) (:background #727272)) ╰────
>
> Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but how can I
> customise that? Its got no name or handle that I can
> hook on to!

No, you can't customize a face unless you know its
name...  - and I have never seen such output from that
function. You mention the mouse, instead try just
placing point (the cursor) on the text and invoke the
function. Do you get a different result from that?

You still haven't told us what you mean by "gmail"?

-- 
underground experts united

Re: a dark theme?

[Sharon Kimble]

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Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:
>
>> Thanks for this Emanuel, I've doctored my init.el and
>> put the above in it, at the end, which is where I
>> always put temporary/testing code, unless it goes
>> into my setup-testing.el. I then ran it when my mouse
>> was on the problem text in a gmail, and this is what
>> it found - ╭──── │Face: ((:foreground #5e5e5e)
>> (:foreground #5e5e5e) (:background #727272)) ╰────
>>
>> Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but how can I
>> customise that? Its got no name or handle that I can
>> hook on to!
>
> No, you can't customize a face unless you know its
> name...  - and I have never seen such output from that
> function. You mention the mouse, instead try just
> placing point (the cursor) on the text and invoke the
> function. Do you get a different result from that?

The first is where there is text, and it gives -
╭────
│ Face: ((:foreground #737373) (:foreground #737373) (:background #5a5a5a))
╰────

and the second in the same message but in blank space, i.e. with no text.
╭────
│ Face: ((:foreground #737373) (:background #5a5a5a))
╰────

> You still haven't told us what you mean by "gmail"?

Google mail is a lesser-known name for the service, but its mostly just
known as "gmail".

Sharon.
-- 
A taste of linux = http://www.sharons.org.uk
my git repo = https://bitbucket.org/boudiccas/dots
TGmeds = http://www.tgmeds.org.uk
Debian testing, fluxbox 1.3.5, emacs 24.3.92.1

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Re: a dark theme?

[Robert Thorpe]

Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:

>> You still haven't told us what you mean by "gmail"?
>
> Google mail is a lesser-known name for the service, but its mostly just
> known as "gmail".

Yes.  But how are you viewing gmail?  Using an Emacs web-browser such as
EWW, W3 or W3m?  Or are you getting Gmail using an Emacs mail client
like Gnus or Rmail?  That changes what needs configuring.

If you're using a web-browser note that gmail itself has themes, so you
can change the background and text colours there.

BR,
Rob

Re: a dark theme?

[Sharon Kimble]

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Robert Thorpe <rt@robertthorpeconsulting.com> writes:

> Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:
>
>>> You still haven't told us what you mean by "gmail"?
>>
>> Google mail is a lesser-known name for the service, but its mostly just
>> known as "gmail".
>
> Yes.  But how are you viewing gmail?  Using an Emacs web-browser such as
> EWW, W3 or W3m?  Or are you getting Gmail using an Emacs mail client
> like Gnus or Rmail?  That changes what needs configuring.
>
> If you're using a web-browser note that gmail itself has themes, so you
> can change the background and text colours there.
>
Gnus.

But the problem has now been solved, and it works with whatever theme I
use.

Sharon.
-- 
A taste of linux = http://www.sharons.org.uk
my git repo = https://bitbucket.org/boudiccas/dots
TGmeds = http://www.tgmeds.org.uk
Debian testing, fluxbox 1.3.5, emacs 24.3.92.1

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Re: a dark theme?

[Emanuel Berg]

Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:

> Gnus.
>
> But the problem has now been solved, and it works
> with whatever theme I use.

Well, of course it is good that the problem is solved
but that doesn't mean you can't elaborate so we learn
even more. You use Gnus but not only to access a gmail
account (like in retrieve from a mail server) but it
also conveys a gmail interface, in which the standard
gnus- and message- faces aren't in effect? To me that
sounds backwards because to me Rmail and later Gnus
were very appreciated ways (orgasmic even) to never
have to deal with mouse- and browser-based
web-interfaces... and that's just part of it.

-- 
underground experts united

Re: a dark theme?

[Sharon Kimble]

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Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:
>
>> Gnus.
>>
>> But the problem has now been solved, and it works
>> with whatever theme I use.
>
> Well, of course it is good that the problem is solved
> but that doesn't mean you can't elaborate so we learn
> even more. You use Gnus but not only to access a gmail
> account (like in retrieve from a mail server) but it
> also conveys a gmail interface, in which the standard
> gnus- and message- faces aren't in effect? To me that
> sounds backwards because to me Rmail and later Gnus
> were very appreciated ways (orgasmic even) to never
> have to deal with mouse- and browser-based
> web-interfaces... and that's just part of it.

Yes I use Gnus, but I'm still learning about it and tweaking it to get
better performance. There is =no= "gmail interface", just downloading
From gmail servers like this in my .gnus
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml "")
                                      (nnimap "gmail"     (nnimap-address "imap.gmail.com")))     
                                      	  gnus-select-method '(nnnil "")
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
and it auto-creates its own mail folders to mirror the source
gmail. Then its just treated like any other email. 

But this is the "killer-code" which makes it possible to read emails
From gmail -
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
;; from Tassilo Horn, 17/7/14
  (setq shr-color-visible-distance-min 10
        shr-color-visible-luminance-min 60)
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Sharon.
-- 
A taste of linux = http://www.sharons.org.uk
my git repo = https://bitbucket.org/boudiccas/dots
TGmeds = http://www.tgmeds.org.uk
Debian testing, fluxbox 1.3.5, emacs 24.3.92.1

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Re: a dark theme?

[Emanuel Berg]

Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:

> Yes I use Gnus, but I'm still learning about it and
> tweaking it to get better performance. There is no
> "gmail interface", just downloading From gmail
> servers like this in my .gnus ...  auto-creates its
> own mail folders to mirror the source gmail. Then its
> just treated like any other email.
>
> But this is the "killer-code" which makes it possible
> to read emails From gmail ...

Yeah, but isn't that a contradiction in terms...? If it
is just fetched from the gmail servers and treated like
any other mail, why should you need any killer code at
all? Why isn't the ordinary gnus- and message- faces at
play? But feel free to drop this anytime as I don't use
gmail myself and even my super-human curiosity is
starting to wane...

-- 
underground experts united

Re: a dark theme?

[Sharon Kimble]

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Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:
>
>> Yes I use Gnus, but I'm still learning about it and
>> tweaking it to get better performance. There is no
>> "gmail interface", just downloading From gmail
>> servers like this in my .gnus ...  auto-creates its
>> own mail folders to mirror the source gmail. Then its
>> just treated like any other email.
>>
>> But this is the "killer-code" which makes it possible
>> to read emails From gmail ...
>
> Yeah, but isn't that a contradiction in terms...? If it
> is just fetched from the gmail servers and treated like
> any other mail, why should you need any killer code at
> all? Why isn't the ordinary gnus- and message- faces at
> play? But feel free to drop this anytime as I don't use
> gmail myself and even my super-human curiosity is
> starting to wane...

But without that "killer-code" its almost impossible to read emails
generated in google-groups in your gmail-inbox as they have a light
background and an almost light text if you're using a theme with a black
or grey background.

I don't understand exactly what the code does or how it works, but
having it in my .gnus has made the unintelligible gmail emails
intelligible!

And that’s all I'm going to say on it :)

Sharon.
-- 
A taste of linux = http://www.sharons.org.uk
my git repo = https://bitbucket.org/boudiccas/dots
TGmeds = http://www.tgmeds.org.uk
Debian testing, fluxbox 1.3.5, emacs 24.3.92.1

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Re: a dark theme?

[Tassilo Horn]

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Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:

Hi Sharon,

> But without that "killer-code" its almost impossible to read emails
> generated in google-groups in your gmail-inbox as they have a light
> background and an almost light text if you're using a theme with a
> black or grey background.

Ah, I was right with my guess and happy that my configs work.

By the way: in your google groups settings, you can configure that you
prefer plain text mail over HTML mail (not sure if there is a global
setting or a setting for each group; possibly both).  I'd advise that
you do that.  There is no good reason for HTML mails, especially not in
discussion mailinglists like google groups.

With that plain-text setting, you wouldn't need my configurations.  But
in any case, they don't hurt and do a good job in case you forecfully
receive HTML mail.

Bye,
Tassilo

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Re: a dark theme?

[Emanuel Berg]

Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

> By the way: in your google groups settings, you can
> configure that you prefer plain text mail over HTML
> mail (not sure if there is a global setting or a
> setting for each group; possibly both).  I'd advise
> that you do that.  There is no good reason for HTML
> mails, especially not in discussion mailinglists like
> google groups.

Yes, I thought HTML mails were a thing of the 90s!

But wait, this only gets more confusing... If the OP
uses Gnus to fetch mail from a gmail account,
shouldn't that mean she gets them in certain ways not
because of her gmail settings, but because of how people
sent them to her?

I mean, what happens if someone sends an HTML mail to
me? I use Gnus which fetches the mail from a mail
server, just not one of gmail's in particular. If Gnus
doesn't parse them to plain text by default somehow, I
should have seen some occasional HTML mail, one would
think. If Gnus does that, I guess we could provide that
option to the OP just as well?

-- 
underground experts united

Re: a dark theme?

[Tassilo Horn]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

Hi Emanuel,

>> By the way: in your google groups settings, you can
>> configure that you prefer plain text mail over HTML
>> mail (not sure if there is a global setting or a
>> setting for each group; possibly both).  I'd advise
>> that you do that.  There is no good reason for HTML
>> mails, especially not in discussion mailinglists like
>> google groups.
>
> Yes, I thought HTML mails were a thing of the 90s!
>
> But wait, this only gets more confusing... If the OP
> uses Gnus to fetch mail from a gmail account,
> shouldn't that mean she gets them in certain ways not
> because of her gmail settings, but because of how people
> sent them to her?

Well, most HTML mails contain both the HTML as well as a plain text
representation of the contents, and then you can teach Gnus which one to
display.

,----[ C-h v mm-discouraged-alternatives RET ]
| mm-discouraged-alternatives is a variable defined in `mm-decode.el'.
| Its value is ("text/html" "text/richtext")
| Original value was nil
| 
| Documentation:
| List of MIME types that are discouraged when viewing multipart/alternative.
| Viewing agents are supposed to view the last possible part of a message,
| as that is supposed to be the richest.  However, users may prefer other
| types instead, and this list says what types are most unwanted.  If,
| for instance, text/html parts are very unwanted, and text/richtext are
| somewhat unwanted, then the value of this variable should be set
| to:
| 
|  ("text/html" "text/richtext")
| 
| Adding "image/.*" might also be useful.  Spammers use it as the
| preferred part of multipart/alternative messages.  See also
| `gnus-buttonized-mime-types', to which adding "multipart/alternative"
| enables you to choose manually one of two types those mails include.
`----

And with google groups which are a kind of hybrid between mailing list
and web forum, I think you can also specify on the server side that you
prefer to only get plain text (or HTML) mails.

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: a dark theme?

[Emanuel Berg]

Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

> Well, most HTML mails contain both the HTML as well
> as a plain text representation of the contents, and
> then you can teach Gnus which one to display.

OK, but that cannot be it as I have that nil. I'll look
around, tho...

> And with google groups which are a kind of hybrid
> between mailing list and web forum, I think you can
> also specify on the server side that you prefer to
> only get plain text (or HTML) mails.

OK. But, Google groups, isn't that rather a web
interface to the nntp Usenet which is distributed?

-- 
underground experts united

Re: a dark theme?

[Tassilo Horn]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

>> And with google groups which are a kind of hybrid between mailing
>> list and web forum, I think you can also specify on the server side
>> that you prefer to only get plain text (or HTML) mails.
>
> OK. But, Google groups, isn't that rather a web interface to the nntp
> Usenet which is distributed?

No, google groups has a set of groups that are completely separate from
the Usenet.  And it only provides access via a web interface or as
mailinglist but not nntp.

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: a dark theme?

[Emanuel Berg]

Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

>> And with google groups which are a kind of hybrid
>> between mailing list and web forum, I think you can
>> also specify on the server side that you prefer to
>> only get plain text (or HTML) mails.  OK. But,
>> Google groups, isn't that rather a web interface to
>> the nntp Usenet which is distributed?
>
> No, google groups has a set of groups that are
> completely separate from the Usenet.  And it only
> provides access via a web interface or as mailinglist
> but not nntp.

OK, so if you use those groups via the web interface or
without telling you mail client it shouldn't show mails
as HTML, you get this problem? Crystal clear.

-- 
underground experts united

Re: a dark theme?

[Emanuel Berg]

Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

> Well, most HTML mails contain both the HTML as well
> as a plain text representation of the contents, and
> then you can teach Gnus which one to display.

The only mention of HTML in my Gnus configuration is:

(setq mm-text-html-renderer 'w3m)

So I guess it is possible what I see is not text, but
HTML, but run through w3m, just looks the same. But, I
tried to change to `shr', and everything (what I can
see) look the same. I don't know. But I'll examine the
variable you mention anyway.

-- 
underground experts united

Re: a dark theme?

[Alan Schmitt]

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On 2014-07-18 03:08, Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Yeah, but isn't that a contradiction in terms...? If it
> is just fetched from the gmail servers and treated like
> any other mail, why should you need any killer code at
> all? Why isn't the ordinary gnus- and message- faces at
> play? But feel free to drop this anytime as I don't use
> gmail myself and even my super-human curiosity is
> starting to wane...

I think the gmail bit is a red herring. These problematic emails are
html emails, which are rendering using shr. The gnus faces don't seem to
apply in this case, but shr options do.

Alan

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Re: a dark theme?

[Emanuel Berg]

Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:

> But without that "killer-code" its almost impossible
> to read emails generated in google-groups in your
> gmail-inbox as they have a light background and an
> almost light text if you're using a theme with a
> black or grey background.
>
> I don't understand exactly what the code does or how
> it works, but having it in my .gnus has made the
> unintelligible gmail emails intelligible!

Of course, I'm not saying you shouldn't use it, I'm
saying this must be a specific situation because the
common faces aren't in play and you need extra killer
code to make it work.

-- 
underground experts united

Re: a dark theme?

[Emanuel Berg]

Alan Schmitt <alan.schmitt@polytechnique.org> writes:

> I think the gmail bit is a red herring. These
> problematic emails are html emails, which are
> rendering using shr. The gnus faces don't seem to
> apply in this case, but shr options do.

Aha! Hell-spawn HTML mails! No wonder you get all types
of problems.

-- 
underground experts united

Re: a dark theme?

[Tassilo Horn]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

Hi Emanuel,

>> But the problem has now been solved, and it works
>> with whatever theme I use.
>
> Well, of course it is good that the problem is solved
> but that doesn't mean you can't elaborate so we learn
> even more.

That's the problem: he received HTML mail from his gmail account, and
Gnus HTML renderer SHR chose font colors with a too low contrast
(probably because "good" colors were declared in CSS which SHR doesn't
parse AFAIK).

So it has nothing to do with gmail the service, gmail the web interface,
or an emacs browser in combination with the web interface.  It just
happened that he received HTML mail from his gmail account and thus
thought the problem might be gmail related.

I've already said that in an earlier message where I provided the
"killer-code".

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: a dark theme?

[Sharon Kimble]

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Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

> Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:
>
> Hi Emanuel,
>
>>> But the problem has now been solved, and it works
>>> with whatever theme I use.
>>
>> Well, of course it is good that the problem is solved
>> but that doesn't mean you can't elaborate so we learn
>> even more.
>
> That's the problem: he received HTML mail from his gmail account, and
> Gnus HTML renderer SHR chose font colors with a too low contrast
> (probably because "good" colors were declared in CSS which SHR doesn't
> parse AFAIK).

Who is "he"? It is not common in the UK for males to be called "Sharon"!

Sharon.
>
> So it has nothing to do with gmail the service, gmail the web interface,
> or an emacs browser in combination with the web interface.  It just
> happened that he received HTML mail from his gmail account and thus
> thought the problem might be gmail related.
>
> I've already said that in an earlier message where I provided the
> "killer-code".
>
> Bye,
> Tassilo
>
>

-- 
A taste of linux = http://www.sharons.org.uk
my git repo = https://bitbucket.org/boudiccas/dots
TGmeds = http://www.tgmeds.org.uk
Debian testing, fluxbox 1.3.5, emacs 24.3.92.1

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Re: a dark theme?

[Tassilo Horn]

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Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:

Hi Sharon,

>> That's the problem: he received HTML mail from his gmail account, and
>> Gnus HTML renderer SHR chose font colors with a too low contrast
>> (probably because "good" colors were declared in CSS which SHR
>> doesn't parse AFAIK).
>
> Who is "he"? It is not common in the UK for males to be called
> "Sharon"!

Ups, I'm more than embarrassed!  Many apologies!

Bye,
Tassilo

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Re: a dark theme?

[Emanuel Berg]

Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:

> Who is "he"? It is not common in the UK for males to
> be called "Sharon"!

Oh, no. We already know you are a girl because you use
the word "please" all the time. Well, perhaps in the
UK, guys do that as well...

-- 
underground experts united

Re: a dark theme?

[Emanuel Berg]

Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:

>> You still haven't told us what you mean by "gmail"?
>
> Google mail is a lesser-known name for the service,
> but its mostly just known as "gmail".

Yes, of course I know what gmail is, are you saying you
are using it from an Emacs browser? In that case, if it
doesn't assign a face, but the face is still somehow
set (the hexadecimal RGB values you posted), I don't
know how to change that.

I know that you use Gnus, so why don't you just set it
up to get the mails from gmail, if you are happy with
that, and then set it (Gnus) up plain-and-simple and
don't have to bother with the web interface and the
Emacs browsers (?). That's the reason you'd use an
"application client" rather than just stumble to some
webpage and start clicking around...

-- 
underground experts united

a dark theme?

[Sharon Kimble]

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I'm hoping that someone can advise me, I'm looking for a theme to use
with emacs and gnus which has a dark background, but also allows me to
read all the text in a gmail which currently appears as nearly-white on
a slightly-grey background.

I've recently been using  aalto-dark, aalto-light, adwaita, alect-black-alt,
tsdh-dark and all have failed the gmail test. I'm currently using tango,
which is the complete reverse of what I'm looking for.

Can anyone help please?

Thanks
Sharon.
-- 
A taste of linux = http://www.sharons.org.uk
my git repo = https://bitbucket.org/boudiccas/dots
TGmeds = http://www.tgmeds.org.uk
Debian testing, fluxbox 1.3.5, emacs 24.3.92.1

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Re: a dark theme?

[Allan Streib]

Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:

> I'm hoping that someone can advise me, I'm looking for a theme to use
> with emacs and gnus which has a dark background, but also allows me to
> read all the text in a gmail which currently appears as nearly-white on
> a slightly-grey background.

I like solarized-dark, or tty-dark.

Allan

Re: a dark theme?

[Emanuel Berg]

Allan Streib <astreib@indiana.edu> writes:

>> I'm hoping that someone can advise me, I'm looking
>> for a theme to use with emacs and gnus which has a
>> dark background, but also allows me to read all the
>> text in a gmail which currently appears as
>> nearly-white on a slightly-grey background.
>
> I like solarized-dark, or tty-dark.

I just said I don't like themes, but tty-dark - come to
think of it, maybe that is good!

:)

-- 
underground experts united

Re: a dark theme?

[Sujith Manoharan]

Sharon Kimble wrote:
> 
> I'm hoping that someone can advise me, I'm looking for a theme to use
> with emacs and gnus which has a dark background, but also allows me to
> read all the text in a gmail which currently appears as nearly-white on
> a slightly-grey background.
> 
> I've recently been using  aalto-dark, aalto-light, adwaita, alect-black-alt,
> tsdh-dark and all have failed the gmail test. I'm currently using tango,
> which is the complete reverse of what I'm looking for.
> 
> Can anyone help please?

You can try zenburn, it's available in elpa.
https://github.com/bbatsov/zenburn-emacs

Sujith

Re: a dark theme?

[Tassilo Horn]

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Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:

Hi Sharon,

> I'm hoping that someone can advise me, I'm looking for a theme to use
> with emacs and gnus which has a dark background, but also allows me to
> read all the text in a gmail which currently appears as nearly-white
> on a slightly-grey background.

I don't think that has anything to do with themes, but SHR which renders
HTML mail in Gnus just picks bad colors to confirm with what's declared
in the HTML text.  But you can force it to require more contrast like
so:

  (setq shr-color-visible-distance-min 10
        shr-color-visible-luminance-min 60)

With that, I'm pretty satisfied with the results.  (I'm the author of
the tsdh-{light,dark} themes and switch between dark and light every
half a year.)

Bye,
Tassilo

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Re: a dark theme?

[Sharon Kimble]

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Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

> Sharon Kimble <boudiccas@skimble.plus.com> writes:
>
> Hi Sharon,
>
>> I'm hoping that someone can advise me, I'm looking for a theme to use
>> with emacs and gnus which has a dark background, but also allows me to
>> read all the text in a gmail which currently appears as nearly-white
>> on a slightly-grey background.
>
> I don't think that has anything to do with themes, but SHR which renders
> HTML mail in Gnus just picks bad colors to confirm with what's declared
> in the HTML text.  But you can force it to require more contrast like
> so:
>
>   (setq shr-color-visible-distance-min 10
>         shr-color-visible-luminance-min 60)
>
> With that, I'm pretty satisfied with the results.  (I'm the author of
> the tsdh-{light,dark} themes and switch between dark and light every
> half a year.)
>

Brilliant, thank you very much, that little code snippet has completely
sorted the problem out! I can now read my emails in my gmail inbox with
no problems at all, thanks.

Sharon.
-- 
A taste of linux = http://www.sharons.org.uk
my git repo = https://bitbucket.org/boudiccas/dots
TGmeds = http://www.tgmeds.org.uk
Debian testing, fluxbox 1.3.5, emacs 24.3.92.1

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Re: a dark theme?

[Emanuel Berg]

Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

> With that, I'm pretty satisfied with the results.
> (I'm the author of the tsdh-{light,dark} themes and
> switch between dark and light every half a year.)

Can you provide some code so I (and all of us) can see
what it takes to formally qualify as a "theme" - I
don't think many people share my taste but some might,
besides it would be interesting to do. Is it just faces
that are included in a "theme" or is it other configs
and extensions as well?

-- 
underground experts united

Re: a dark theme?

[Sauli Heinola]

* Emanuel Berg <embe8573-oe7qfRrRQfc4M/bo5TPICw@public.gmane.org>:
> Can you provide some code so I (and all of us) can see
> what it takes to formally qualify as a "theme"

With a recent enough Emacs version you can look at them yourself - Emacs
24.3 ships with 13 themes out the box: /usr/share/emacs/24.3/etc/themes

> Is it just faces that are included in a "theme" or is
> it other configs and extensions as well?

Custom themes use the `deftheme'-macro to create themes and are, as you
stated, "just a list of faces".  Have a whack at M-x
`customize-create-theme'.

-- 
It's a bad trip but I'll take it.

Re: a dark theme?

[Emanuel Berg]

Sauli Heinola <sheinola@riseup.net> writes:

> With a recent enough Emacs version you can look at
> them yourself - Emacs 24.3 ships with 13 themes out
> the box: /usr/share/emacs/24.3/etc/themes

Ha! The adwaita-theme only has 70 lines of face
settings. I have 94 and I didn't even know the concept
of theme until now... But when I load-file my faces
from the state of a previous built-in theme, there are
remnants of the old order so my "theme" is nonetheless
incomplete, it seems.

> Custom themes use the `deftheme'-macro to create
> themes and are, as you stated, "just a list of
> faces".  Have a whack at M-x
> `customize-create-theme'.

OK. There was a guy on this list - Jambunathan K - who
was in contact with another guy who did Emacs "suites"
with skeletons of Emacs configuration to appeal
to/offer a head start to certain personalities and
expected usage (as in bright-on-black, programming,
Gnus, and so on) - I don't know what happened to them
and that project, or if they even included faces, but
they should as Gnus for example is dead boring without
some makeup.

-- 
underground experts united

Re: a dark theme?

[Tassilo Horn]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Ha! The adwaita-theme only has 70 lines of face settings. I have 94
> and I didn't even know the concept of theme until now... But when I
> load-file my faces from the state of a previous built-in theme, there
> are remnants of the old order so my "theme" is nonetheless incomplete,
> it seems.

I just grepped the sources.  Emacs has 803 faces only in its core and
built-in packages.  So a really complete theme might require some work.

(But it's a common and good practice to derive all faces for a package
from the standard emacs-core font-lock faces, so changing those will
also change the appearance of the derived ones.)

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: a dark theme?

[Emanuel Berg]

Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

> I just grepped the sources.  Emacs has 803 faces only
> in its core and built-in packages.  So a really
> complete theme might require some work.

Yeah, completeness for completeness sake is silly
anyway. But perhaps when you invoke a theme it could
call a defun that would "reset" Emacs to an
unconfigured state, in terms of faces, otherwise the
result of applying the theme is unpredictable with
respect to... at least details, in the "face" of
previous configs and themes applied.

Come to think of it, I always said themes weren't
creative but perhaps I underestimate people, this
"incompleteness feature" of themes makes it possible to
combine them...

> (But it's a common and good practice to derive all
> faces for a package from the standard emacs-core
> font-lock faces, so changing those will also change the
> appearance of the derived ones.)

You mean like this?

(defgroup fpscalc nil
  "The `fpscalc' mode."
  :group 'local)

(defgroup fpscalc-faces nil
  "The faces used by the `fpscalc' major mode."
  :group 'fpscalc
  :group 'faces)

(defface fpscalc-program-parts
  '((t :inherit font-lock-keyword-face :foreground "magenta" :bold t))
  "The words declarations, initialise, semaphores, and formulas."
  )

-- 
underground experts united

Re: a dark theme?

[Suvayu Ali]

Hi Sharon,

On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 07:53:35PM +0100, Sharon Kimble wrote:
> 
> I'm hoping that someone can advise me, I'm looking for a theme to use
> with emacs and gnus which has a dark background, but also allows me to
> read all the text in a gmail which currently appears as nearly-white on
> a slightly-grey background.
> 
> I've recently been using  aalto-dark, aalto-light, adwaita, alect-black-alt,
> tsdh-dark and all have failed the gmail test. I'm currently using tango,
> which is the complete reverse of what I'm looking for.
> 
> Can anyone help please?

I can recommend a theme I maintain:

https://github.com/suvayu/.emacs.d/blob/master/themes/dark-emacs-theme.el

-- 
Suvayu

Open source is the future. It sets us free.