Re: about showing all characters including non-printable, control etc

Re: about showing all characters including non-printable, control etc

[John A Pershing Jr]

Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

> How can I make emacs show all the characters in a given line?

Ummmm...  By default, Emacs *does* show all the characters in each
line.  Can you give us a bit more detail on what sort of characters you
are using, and what is (or isn't) getting displayed?

Note: \x01\x02\x03\x04\x05\x06\a...  

  -jp

Re: about showing all characters including non-printable, control etc

[Harry Putnam]

John A Pershing Jr <pershing@alum.mit.edu> writes:

> Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:
>
>> How can I make emacs show all the characters in a given line?
>
> Ummmm...  By default, Emacs *does* show all the characters in each
> line.  Can you give us a bit more detail on what sort of characters you
> are using, and what is (or isn't) getting displayed?
>
> Note: \x01\x02\x03\x04\x05\x06\a...  

In the instant case I was looking for tabs in a rc file that requires
tabs and not spc... here is a sample:
(Its an rsnapshot.conf file)

There two tabs after each variable name... then the value:

  # All snapshots will be stored under this root directory.
  snapshot_root	/bk/rsnap/home
  cmd_cp		/bin/cp
  # uncomment this to use the rm program instead of the built-in perl routine
  cmd_rm		/bin/rm

Maybe its just a setting on my end and only tabs are invisible.

Do you see the two tabs by default?

Re: about showing all characters including non-printable, control etc

[Pascal J. Bourguignon]

Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

> John A Pershing Jr <pershing@alum.mit.edu> writes:
>
>> Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:
>>
>>> How can I make emacs show all the characters in a given line?
>>
>> Ummmm...  By default, Emacs *does* show all the characters in each
>> line.  Can you give us a bit more detail on what sort of characters you
>> are using, and what is (or isn't) getting displayed?
>>
>> Note: \x01\x02\x03\x04\x05\x06\a...  
>
> In the instant case I was looking for tabs in a rc file that requires
> tabs and not spc... here is a sample:
> (Its an rsnapshot.conf file)
>
> There two tabs after each variable name... then the value:
>
>   # All snapshots will be stored under this root directory.
>   snapshot_root	/bk/rsnap/home
>   cmd_cp		/bin/cp
>   # uncomment this to use the rm program instead of the built-in perl routine
>   cmd_rm		/bin/rm
>
> Maybe its just a setting on my end and only tabs are invisible.
>
> Do you see the two tabs by default?

Well, there shouldn't be tabs in text files (but Makefiles, as a
legacy exception).  Use  M-x untabify RET to replace them by spaces.


Now, you can use M-x whitespace-global-mode RET
and toggle on the M-x whitespace-toggle-spacetab-check RET
that will show you when there are spaces before tabs.

You could modify the whitespace-spacetab-regexp to match any sequence
of space and tab containing at least one tab, or just tabs.

-- 
__Pascal Bourguignon__

Re: about showing all characters including non-printable, control etc

[Harry Putnam]

pjb@informatimago.com (Pascal J. Bourguignon) writes:

> Well, there shouldn't be tabs in text files (but Makefiles, as a
> legacy exception).  Use  M-x untabify RET to replace them by spaces.

Its not my choice... should or shouldn't is meaningless here.
If they are not tabs rsnapshot will fail so its necessary to se what
is there and make sure its tab or tabs.

> Now, you can use M-x whitespace-global-mode RET
> and toggle on the M-x whitespace-toggle-spacetab-check RET
> that will show you when there are spaces before tabs.
>
> You could modify the whitespace-spacetab-regexp to match any sequence
> of space and tab containing at least one tab, or just tabs.

Apparently something has to be loaded to use whitespace-global-mode.
My emacs knows nothing about it.

C-h i <RET> m <RET> i whitespace-global-mode <RET>

Info doesn't know about it either.

Finally:
grep -r whitespace-global-mode /usr/share/emacs/23.1.50
Shows the name has been aliased to:
 usr/share/emacs/23.1.50/etc/NEWS.22:*** 
 `global-whitespace-mode' is a new alias for `whitespace-global-mode'.

M-x load-library <RET> global-whitespace-mode

Loads the source file... but still setting the check call fails here:

  M-x whitespace-toggle-s<tab>  fails to find anything

Maybe more names are changed?
What version of emacs are you running.

Re: about showing all characters including non-printable, control etc

[Bernardo]

> Apparently something has to be loaded to use whitespace-global-mode.
> My emacs knows nothing about it.
> 
> C-h i <RET> m <RET> i whitespace-global-mode <RET>
> 
> Info doesn't know about it either.
> 
> Finally:
> grep -r whitespace-global-mode /usr/share/emacs/23.1.50
> Shows the name has been aliased to:
>  usr/share/emacs/23.1.50/etc/NEWS.22:*** 
>  `global-whitespace-mode' is a new alias for `whitespace-global-mode'.
> 
> M-x load-library <RET> global-whitespace-mode
> 
> Loads the source file... but still setting the check call fails here:
> 
>   M-x whitespace-toggle-s<tab>  fails to find anything
> 
> Maybe more names are changed?
> What version of emacs are you running.
does M-x apropos RET whitespace RET
list whitespace-mode?

Re: about showing all characters including non-printable, control etc

[Harry Putnam]

Bernardo <bernardo.bacic@pobox.com> writes:

>> Apparently something has to be loaded to use whitespace-global-mode.
>> My emacs knows nothing about it.
>>
>> C-h i <RET> m <RET> i whitespace-global-mode <RET>
>>
>> Info doesn't know about it either.
>>
>> Finally:
>> grep -r whitespace-global-mode /usr/share/emacs/23.1.50
>> Shows the name has been aliased to:
>>  usr/share/emacs/23.1.50/etc/NEWS.22:***  `global-whitespace-mode'
>> is a new alias for `whitespace-global-mode'.
>>
>> M-x load-library <RET> global-whitespace-mode
>>
>> Loads the source file... but still setting the check call fails here:
>>
>>   M-x whitespace-toggle-s<tab>  fails to find anything
>>
>> Maybe more names are changed?
>> What version of emacs are you running.
> does M-x apropos RET whitespace RET
> list whitespace-mode?

yes... (thanks) under global-whitespace-mode
From what it says apparently if you have global-whitespace-mode on you
should have a WS on mode line that toggles `visualization' on/off.

I have that. `WS' with it on... what am I supposed to see?

When I go to one of the messages with the tab in it... I still don't
see them.
No one ever said what this mode is supposed to do...

I mentioned in my OP the vim command :l  that shows tabs and lots of
other stuff... in a line.

Is there a command in emacs that does that?... or is it an endless
bunch of jerking around to see tabs....sorry don't mean to be a wise
ass.  But this is getting to be a lot of jumping through hoops and no
results. 

I think I'll just stick to my home made defuns... but can you tell me
how to make this a toggle?  And how to make it apply to just the
current line.  The toggle would be the most important... in fact
showing the whole buffer would probably be more useful than not. 

(defun vi-list ()
  "Simulate a :set list in Vi."
  (interactive)
  (standard-display-ascii ?\t "^I")
  (standard-display-ascii ?\n "$\n")
  )

(defun vi-nolist ()
  "Simulate a :set nolist in Vi."
  (interactive)
  (standard-display-ascii ?\t "\t")
  (standard-display-ascii ?\n "\n")
  )

What would be really useful would be to set things up so that after
pressing M-x vi-list  The first scroll kind of motion would
automatically call vi-nolist.

That's pretty much how it works in vim.. I don't know the mechanics but
if you press :l  The current line is shown but soon as you move it
goes off.  nice.

Re: about showing all characters including non-printable, control etc

[Bernardo]

>> does M-x apropos RET whitespace RET
>> list whitespace-mode?
> 
> yes... (thanks) under global-whitespace-mode
>>From what it says apparently if you have global-whitespace-mode on you
> should have a WS on mode line that toggles `visualization' on/off.
> 
> I have that. `WS' with it on... what am I supposed to see?
if you
* start Emacs with -Q command line option
* switch to *scratch* buffer
* type global-whitespace-mode RET
* type C-q TAB
do you see anything different?

BTW are you running Emacs in a terminal or as an (X) windows application?

Re: about showing all characters including non-printable, control etc

[Harry Putnam]

Bernardo <bernardo.bacic@pobox.com> writes:

>>> does M-x apropos RET whitespace RET
>>> list whitespace-mode?
>>
>> yes... (thanks) under global-whitespace-mode
>>>From what it says apparently if you have global-whitespace-mode on you
>> should have a WS on mode line that toggles `visualization' on/off.
>>
>> I have that. `WS' with it on... what am I supposed to see?
> if you
> * start Emacs with -Q command line option
> * switch to *scratch* buffer
> * type global-whitespace-mode RET
> * type C-q TAB
> do you see anything different?
>
> BTW are you running Emacs in a terminal or as an (X) windows application?

emacs in X

As I've mentioned ... I already have the mode on as evidenced by the
WS in the mode line... and sure enough I see cool syntax highlight on
tabs in scratch buffer... however I don't normally read News and Mail
in the scratch buffer.

I was testing on the snippet from a rc file in this thread

If you go to one of the replies in this thread that has the snippet
from a rc file...(This one does):

  Message-ID: <87y6nrvq78.fsf@galatea.local>

And paste it here below.  Do you see tabs there... I don't.
Yet if you run over the uncommented lines with arrow keys you will see
they are there.

>   # All snapshots will be stored under this root directory.
>   snapshot_root	/bk/rsnap/home
>   cmd_cp		/bin/cp
>   # uncomment this to use the rm program instead of the built-in perl routine
>   cmd_rm		/bin/rm

That was my error... I should have opened one of the rc files instead
of checking the snippet in a News message.

When I do open the actual rc file... I see the tabs marked.

But going back to my original comments... comparing to the :l command
in vim... that would show the tabs regardless of type of buffer.

I guess that's what I expected global-whitespace-mode to do too, but it
doesn't.

for example... using my home made vi-list functions (That someone on
this list.. wrote yrs ago)... shows them in this message (or anywhere
else... I think) no trick modes that might or might not do the job
involved.

(defun vi-list ()
  "Simulate a :set list in Vi." 
  (interactive)
  (standard-display-ascii ?\t "^I")
  (standard-display-ascii ?\n "$\n")
  )

(defun vi-nolist ()
  "Simulate a :set nolist in Vi."
  (interactive)
  (standard-display-ascii ?\t "\t")
  (standard-display-ascii ?\n "\n")
  )

Apparently global-whitespace-mode is disabled in message mode some
how.  Maybe others too.

How can I turn those two defuns (vi-list, vi-nolist) into a toggle?
So I can turn it on off with one key combo.

Re: about showing all characters including non-printable, control etc

[Xah Lee]

if you are using emacs 23, whitespace-mode is bundled.

See:

• How To Use And Setup Emacs's whitespace-mode
  http://xahlee.org/emacs/whitespace-mode.html

  Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

On Oct 5, 8:34 am, Harry Putnam <rea...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> Bernardo <bernardo.ba...@pobox.com> writes:
> >>> does M-x apropos RET whitespace RET
> >>> list whitespace-mode?
>
> >> yes... (thanks) under global-whitespace-mode
> >>>From what it says apparently if you have global-whitespace-mode on you
> >> should have a WS on mode line that toggles `visualization' on/off.
>
> >> I have that. `WS' with it on... what am I supposed to see?
> > if you
> > * start Emacs with -Q command line option
> > * switch to *scratch* buffer
> > * type global-whitespace-mode RET
> > * type C-q TAB
> > do you see anything different?
>
> > BTW are you running Emacs in a terminal or as an (X) windows application?
>
> emacs in X
>
> As I've mentioned ... I already have the mode on as evidenced by the
> WS in the mode line... and sure enough I see cool syntax highlight on
> tabs in scratch buffer... however I don't normally read News and Mail
> in the scratch buffer.
>
> I was testing on the snippet from a rc file in this thread
>
> If you go to one of the replies in this thread that has the snippet
> from a rc file...(This one does):
>
>   Message-ID: <87y6nrvq78....@galatea.local>
>
> And paste it here below.  Do you see tabs there... I don't.
> Yet if you run over the uncommented lines with arrow keys you will see
> they are there.
>
> >   # All snapshots will be stored under this root directory.
> >   snapshot_root    /bk/rsnap/home
> >   cmd_cp           /bin/cp
> >   # uncomment this to use the rm program instead of the built-in perl routine
> >   cmd_rm           /bin/rm
>
> That was my error... I should have opened one of the rc files instead
> of checking the snippet in a News message.
>
> When I do open the actual rc file... I see the tabs marked.
>
> But going back to my original comments... comparing to the :l command
> in vim... that would show the tabs regardless of type of buffer.
>
> I guess that's what I expected global-whitespace-mode to do too, but it
> doesn't.
>
> for example... using my home made vi-list functions (That someone on
> this list.. wrote yrs ago)... shows them in this message (or anywhere
> else... I think) no trick modes that might or might not do the job
> involved.
>
> (defun vi-list ()
>   "Simulate a :set list in Vi."
>   (interactive)
>   (standard-display-ascii ?\t "^I")
>   (standard-display-ascii ?\n "$\n")
>   )
>
> (defun vi-nolist ()
>   "Simulate a :set nolist in Vi."
>   (interactive)
>   (standard-display-ascii ?\t "\t")
>   (standard-display-ascii ?\n "\n")
>   )
>
> Apparently global-whitespace-mode is disabled in message mode some
> how.  Maybe others too.
>
> How can I turn those two defuns (vi-list, vi-nolist) into a toggle?
> So I can turn it on off with one key combo.

Re: about showing all characters including non-printable, control etc

[Harry Putnam]

Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com> writes:

> if you are using emacs 23, whitespace-mode is bundled.
>
> See:
>
> • How To Use And Setup Emacs's whitespace-mode
>   http://xahlee.org/emacs/whitespace-mode.html

Thanks... Xah, nice write up... I wish I'd seen it sooner.

Re: about showing all characters including non-printable, control etc

[Tim X]

Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

> Bernardo <bernardo.bacic@pobox.com> writes:
>
>>> Apparently something has to be loaded to use whitespace-global-mode.
>>> My emacs knows nothing about it.
>>>
>>> C-h i <RET> m <RET> i whitespace-global-mode <RET>
>>>
>>> Info doesn't know about it either.
>>>
>>> Finally:
>>> grep -r whitespace-global-mode /usr/share/emacs/23.1.50
>>> Shows the name has been aliased to:
>>>  usr/share/emacs/23.1.50/etc/NEWS.22:***  `global-whitespace-mode'
>>> is a new alias for `whitespace-global-mode'.
>>>
>>> M-x load-library <RET> global-whitespace-mode
>>>
>>> Loads the source file... but still setting the check call fails here:
>>>
>>>   M-x whitespace-toggle-s<tab>  fails to find anything
>>>
>>> Maybe more names are changed?
>>> What version of emacs are you running.
>> does M-x apropos RET whitespace RET
>> list whitespace-mode?
>
> yes... (thanks) under global-whitespace-mode
> From what it says apparently if you have global-whitespace-mode on you
> should have a WS on mode line that toggles `visualization' on/off.
>
> I have that. `WS' with it on... what am I supposed to see?
>
> When I go to one of the messages with the tab in it... I still don't
> see them.
> No one ever said what this mode is supposed to do...
>
> I mentioned in my OP the vim command :l  that shows tabs and lots of
> other stuff... in a line.
>
> Is there a command in emacs that does that?... or is it an endless
> bunch of jerking around to see tabs....sorry don't mean to be a wise
> ass.  But this is getting to be a lot of jumping through hoops and no
> results. 
>
> I think I'll just stick to my home made defuns... but can you tell me
> how to make this a toggle?  And how to make it apply to just the
> current line.  The toggle would be the most important... in fact
> showing the whole buffer would probably be more useful than not. 
>
> (defun vi-list ()
>   "Simulate a :set list in Vi."
>   (interactive)
>   (standard-display-ascii ?\t "^I")
>   (standard-display-ascii ?\n "$\n")
>   )
>
> (defun vi-nolist ()
>   "Simulate a :set nolist in Vi."
>   (interactive)
>   (standard-display-ascii ?\t "\t")
>   (standard-display-ascii ?\n "\n")
>   )
>
> What would be really useful would be to set things up so that after
> pressing M-x vi-list  The first scroll kind of motion would
> automatically call vi-nolist.
>
> That's pretty much how it works in vim.. I don't know the mechanics but
> if you press :l  The current line is shown but soon as you move it
> goes off.  nice.
>
>
For emacs 23

>

-- 
tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au

Re: about showing all characters including non-printable, control etc

[Harry Putnam]

Tim X <timx@nospam.dev.null> writes:

>> What would be really useful would be to set things up so that after
>> pressing M-x vi-list  The first scroll kind of motion would
>> automatically call vi-nolist.
>>
>> That's pretty much how it works in vim.. I don't know the mechanics but
>> if you press :l  The current line is shown but soon as you move it
>> goes off.  nice.
>>
>>
> For emacs 23

If that is a question... I'm not sure what its about.  If you are
asking if I'm running emacs-23... then yes.

Re: about showing all characters including non-printable, control etc

[Tim X]

Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

> Tim X <timx@nospam.dev.null> writes:
>
>>> What would be really useful would be to set things up so that after
>>> pressing M-x vi-list  The first scroll kind of motion would
>>> automatically call vi-nolist.
>>>
>>> That's pretty much how it works in vim.. I don't know the mechanics but
>>> if you press :l  The current line is shown but soon as you move it
>>> goes off.  nice.
>>>
>>>
>> For emacs 23
>
> If that is a question... I'm not sure what its about.  If you are
> asking if I'm running emacs-23... then yes.
>
Actually, not sure what happened, but I /thought/ I'd also included the
doc string for 

,----[ C-h f whitespace-toggle-options RET ]
| whitespace-toggle-options is an interactive autoloaded Lisp function in
| `whitespace.el'.
| 
| (whitespace-toggle-options ARG)
| 
| Toggle local `whitespace-mode' options.
| 
| If local whitespace-mode is off, toggle the option given by ARG
| and turn on local whitespace-mode.
| 
| If local whitespace-mode is on, toggle the option given by ARG
| and restart local whitespace-mode.
| 
| Interactively, it reads one of the following chars:
| 
|   CHAR	MEANING
|   (VIA FACES)
|    t	toggle TAB visualization
|    s	toggle SPACE and HARD SPACE visualization
|    r	toggle trailing blanks visualization
|    l	toggle "long lines" visualization
|    L	toggle "long lines" tail visualization
|    n	toggle NEWLINE visualization
|    e	toggle empty line at bob and/or eob visualization
|    C-i	toggle indentation SPACEs visualization (via `indent-tabs-mode')
|    I	toggle indentation SPACEs visualization
|    i	toggle indentation TABs visualization
|    C-a	toggle SPACEs after TAB visualization (via `indent-tabs-mode')
|    A	toggle SPACEs after TAB: SPACEs visualization
|    a	toggle SPACEs after TAB: TABs visualization
|    C-b	toggle SPACEs before TAB visualization (via `indent-tabs-mode')
|    B	toggle SPACEs before TAB: SPACEs visualization
|    b	toggle SPACEs before TAB: TABs visualization
| 
|   (VIA DISPLAY TABLE)
|    T	toggle TAB visualization
|    S	toggle SPACEs before TAB visualization
|    N	toggle NEWLINE visualization
| 
|    x	restore `whitespace-style' value
|    ?	display brief help
| 
| Non-interactively, ARG should be a symbol or a list of symbols.
| The valid symbols are:
| 
|    tabs			toggle TAB visualization
|    spaces		toggle SPACE and HARD SPACE visualization
|    trailing		toggle trailing blanks visualization
|    lines		toggle "long lines" visualization
|    lines-tail		toggle "long lines" tail visualization
|    newline		toggle NEWLINE visualization
|    empty		toggle empty line at bob and/or eob visualization
|    indentation		toggle indentation SPACEs visualization
|    indentation::tab	toggle indentation SPACEs visualization
|    indentation::space	toggle indentation TABs visualization
|    space-after-tab		toggle SPACEs after TAB visualization
|    space-after-tab::tab		toggle SPACEs after TAB: SPACEs visualization
|    space-after-tab::space	toggle SPACEs after TAB: TABs visualization
|    space-before-tab		toggle SPACEs before TAB visualization
|    space-before-tab::tab	toggle SPACEs before TAB: SPACEs visualization
|    space-before-tab::space	toggle SPACEs before TAB: TABs visualization
| 
|    tab-mark		toggle TAB visualization
|    space-mark		toggle SPACEs before TAB visualization
|    newline-mark		toggle NEWLINE visualization
| 
|    whitespace-style	restore `whitespace-style' value
| 
| Only useful with a windowing system.
| 
| See `whitespace-style' and `indent-tabs-mode' for documentation.
`----
>
>
>

-- 
tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au

Re: about showing all characters including non-printable, control etc

[Harry Putnam]

Tim X <timx@nospam.dev.null> writes:

>>> For emacs 23
>>
>> If that is a question... I'm not sure what its about.  If you are
>> asking if I'm running emacs-23... then yes.
>>
> Actually, not sure what happened, but I /thought/ I'd also included the
> doc string for 

Thanks

Ok, now I can see tabs in a message buffer.  But now I have a new
problem... I can't turn it off...
You'd think toggling the mode with M-x global-whitespace-mode would
turn it off but it doesn't.

I did notice the capitalized WS in the mode line went to lowercase
when I toggled global-whitespace-mode... so maybe you can toggle
local-whitespace-mode but no... no soap there.

Going back to the documentation Tim posted... I finally guessed how to
turn it on off.... it doesn't tell you directly but it does tell what
to do if local whitespace-mode is off.  

So you can guess that there is a whitespace-mode you can toggle.  Not
just a `global-whitespace-mode'.

Thanks for sticking with it Tim... in spite of my thick skull.

about showing all characters including non-printable, control etc

[Harry Putnam]

How can I make emacs show all the characters in a given line?

I've been using a little function that emulates vims :l cmd.
(That `:l' command in vim does show all characters in the current line)

I have two little home made defuns that do the job  sort of.
(defun vi-list ()
(defun vi-nolist ()

But that really needs to be a toggle of one function, and made to
apply to the line at point instead of the whole buffer.

Even better an existing emacs function that can be made to do this.