From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs Book Vs Emacs Manuals Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 16:05:45 +0200 Organization: Informatimago Message-ID: <87y4kwcyti.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> References: <554C9356.5000204@gmail.com> <20150508125314086261755@bob.proulx.com> <87bnhuc177.fsf@mbork.pl> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1431267345 25349 80.91.229.3 (10 May 2015 14:15:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 14:15:45 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 10 16:15:36 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YrS11-00039L-V9 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 10 May 2015 16:15:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33686 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YrS11-00054h-7e for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 10 May 2015 10:15:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59241) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YrS0h-000515-SX for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2015 10:15:17 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YrS0c-0002PD-5t for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2015 10:15:15 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:55766) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YrS0b-0002Oy-Vu for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2015 10:15:10 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YrS0a-000304-KF for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 10 May 2015 16:15:08 +0200 Original-Received: from amontsouris-654-1-48-174.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr ([92.151.199.174]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 10 May 2015 16:15:08 +0200 Original-Received: from pjb by amontsouris-654-1-48-174.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 10 May 2015 16:15:08 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 53 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: amontsouris-654-1-48-174.w92-151.abo.wanadoo.fr Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAQMAAABtzGvEAAAABlBMVEUAAAD///+l2Z/dAAAA oElEQVR4nK3OsRHCMAwF0O8YQufUNIQRGIAja9CxSA55AxZgFO4coMgYrEDDQZWPIlNAjwq9 033pbOBPtbXuB6PKNBn5gZkhGa86Z4x2wE67O+06WxGD/HCOGR0deY3f9Ijwwt7rNGNf6Oac l/GuZTF1wFGKiYYHKSFAkjIo1b6sCYS1sVmFhhhahKQssRjRT90ITWUk6vvK3RsPGs+M1RuR mV+hO/VvFAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Accept-Language: fr, es, en User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:YzQzM2MwZjA3ODJhNDdkOTJmNjRlYmMwNmNhNjBkMGM2ZWY4OGM4ZQ== X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:104356 Archived-At: Rusi writes: > On Sunday, May 10, 2015 at 8:18:20 AM UTC+5:30, Bob Proulx wrote: >> Marcin Borkowski wrote: >> > Bob Proulx wrote: >> > > A student says that they really want to learn Calculus. They know >> > > that Calculus is very powerful and can be used to solve many problems. >> > > I suggest that they learn Arithmetic first. They respond, >> > > "Arithmetic! Have you learned Arithmetic? Arithmetic is old. Should >> > > I learn Arithmetic? For example, will Arithmetic talk about >> > > Calculus?" >> > >> > Nice try;-). But this analogy is flawed: software, unlike mathematical >> > theories, is subject to change. >> >> Has emacs changed that much? I don't think it has. It is still very >> much the same. > > Sad but true > > After 20 years of using, teaching with, and making my students use emacs, > for the first time this year I taught python using Idle rather than emacs. > Some nuisances... C-a now means Select-all whereas my nerve-pathways know it as > Beginning-of-line etc etc > Also some sadness... however one needs to get real and selling emacs to students > has led to lot of funny looks and some significant hostility. > > The tutorial with C-f C-b... for cursor movements was I guess the last straw > > What I describe may sound like exaggeration but that's only because I am trying to > reconstruct what happens between noob and emacs when I am not around. > > Student starts reading tutorial and sees the C-f C-b stuff: > > - Some follow it wonder about the weirdness but then get on with it > - Some just use cursor keys like the rest of the planet ignore the C-f C-b > stuff and get on with it > - But a few notice that cursor keys work as they should but is not documented > and are a bit confused/bewildered > - And of those few, a few get real HOSTILE > > Now if the cursor-keys didn't work it would not be so bad > And ideal would be for them to work AND be documented > But works and NOT documented/demoed in tutorial... and there are serious > allegations of ATTITUDE! I can't believe it. Do you teach retards? -- __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/ “The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment.” -- Carl Bass CEO Autodesk