From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: Repurpose one key (why only one?) and reserve it for third-party packages Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 19:23:07 +0100 Message-ID: <87y2fq33w4.fsf@posteo.net> References: <877dndgnhp.fsf@posteo.net> <329d68a5edfafadfe7cd@heytings.org> <87y2fsg5ve.fsf@posteo.net> <87mtw8fi6k.fsf@posteo.net> <87ft20f3ec.fsf@posteo.net> <8735xz67ye.fsf@posteo.net> <87mtw74j5h.fsf@posteo.net> <663841c0e3fb003a733c@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="1282"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 14 19:47:54 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lBMR0-0000E4-CU for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 19:47:54 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33220 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lBMQz-0005gS-DR for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 13:47:53 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39476) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lBM39-00087s-G2 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 13:23:16 -0500 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:40908) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lBM35-0007c7-VE for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 13:23:15 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1812C16005F for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 19:23:08 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1613326989; bh=yeE+jNANmv8VjD6ktp2EgxSz6nrAYERhCRkDCcybd0w=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=sIVd9lXzw1x1y7uJ8XlMKufz1LX0dR1JBWafGf8MaLhqrLIZ2zrMAcoVy/UQK0Qrv ydsVLIL6g5iq3xpDv8uI5ytc5LGk3lRthpkufntrCZODFyJgpoeytEE1P5dJqck4l+ 3gqgfF3Doyb07ZdveTetvw4IkqLXE2mkN6wbfM1y+A4uBbrFOTanV4u308wgV8d7RF YGX3U9Q9azvYWJPNRjQrQZXi5h860fpeRhjNxSQXxz94f+AuDr954zoBMiulTwk73w bgu65KHN8lPYZSWlwhfN/YhyV1VbB4N2iXGjJMkQTeY2pGT8PZf71O6M0DKxdxSgCV rvnkUjnwljM/w== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Ddwb01tWQz6tmQ; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 19:23:08 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <663841c0e3fb003a733c@heytings.org> (Gregory Heytings's message of "Sun, 14 Feb 2021 17:59:42 +0000") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:128047 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gregory Heytings writes: >> >> So I get that there might not be that many commands, but I'd dare to >> claim that 52 keys are a fair number. This is not a matter of=20 >> computational power or memory, the needs are not increasing >> exponentially over time. >> >> [...] >> >> Maybe it is just me, but it would surprise me if people would keep >> 52 distinct commands in memory, which all have to be bound globally >> and are easy to type. Not insisting on this though. > > On Elpa and Melpa there are currently 5121 distinct packages. And > there are lots of packages that are not on Elpa and/or Melpa. That > number can only grow over time, perhaps not exponentially, but grow > nonetheless. Emacs itself has lots and lots of commands bound to keys, > I don't know the exact number, but it's surely an order of magniture > larger than 52. "Starter kits" such as Spacemacs include 100 or more > external packages. Or course not all of them would have a reason to > bind command globally, but some will bind more than one command. So > it seems to me that the 52 keys limit is easy to reach. I'm not sure that the number of published packages necessarily means that 1. user install more packages over time 2. some fixed proportion of these require global bindings. More often than not, packages might just provide hooks or implement interfaces like Xref or CAPF, thus avoiding their own special keys. > I agree with Drew that the solution you propose is not user-friendly, > because querying a user who doesn't yet know how a package works and > what its commands are to bind some commands they do not yet know to a > key is confusing. What users would most likely do is to answer "yes" > everywhere without thinking further. (It reminds me what Windows > program installers did when I started using computers, about 25 years > ago. They asked you a few questions, I don't remember precisely what > they were, but it was something like "where do you want to install the > program?", "do you want to put a shortcut on the desktop?", "do you > want to put a shortcut in the start menu?". You read those questions > when you installed your first program, because you thought they were > important, but later you just clicked "yes" to every question.) That is why ideally each suggestion should be accompanied by an explanation, and keep the number of suggestions to a minimum. But this can be discussed when I come around to actually implementing the idea, and sending it to emacs-devel. =2D-=20 Philip K. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQHHBAEBCAAxFiEEbW+YL3e0aNnYosjIGB9bla4wszYFAmApaosTHHBoaWxpcGtA cG9zdGVvLm5ldAAKCRAYH1uVrjCzNnMHDACR8pC6hlwH8NSRwOQvOEH2Y7fNv4Xj UlwvoXqsqskTmZUstaVdZVyomu6qL5VfedlZeuOfuTlvF8aQ0yZuzNPPJy2s4GYz 2tUEXC5rIy405qxg80ickxFaXWYVskWHJWsH+4KC40q7UBW5RugLAl4GahT+Y8H0 dlpxX8c5JYQZ1Q6aB8cpCeNv8LnYXIrAinDD5j970J/+JvG1KkAgOrRZLjX+Wrj5 xrTi/RLgn+9Eho5S/fPngFzisNku13zUdaWiZpb+KiQ3/KpsR8fthECJtxU99dW2 Zip9JTgc60j2Sp4MpWSVWgawq8s/6etiAf60nruyqAGiEYtZ/CTNCBP6FRLHcX8c zyFVLhFB/SVPBpHPeIuiU+Iuw7fgZG8MMDhnS9OwQUx0gXqNor6wk/AMDDyOr+3o Bo7DLZDc0QvsDRWKO+XEJQneY4qAkLVnD/7hXLXEAqSf4c3iWbIEc6hfLbKB1gBS UVSl5oAkj6EAR0wBlSkkSv1kWektcD4HYp4= =N+WM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--