cursor/tab/highlighting problems in gnome-terminal

cursor/tab/highlighting problems in gnome-terminal

[Dan Davison]

I'm using emacs22 in a gnome-terminal under ubuntu hardy. My problem
is that I'm experiencing strange and apparently unpredictable cursor
problems. This doesn't occur with emacs22-gtk under X, and doesn't
occur in an xterm. One thing is that sometimes a 'ghost' cursor will
get left behind the real cursor. It goes away if you run the real
cursor over it, but that's annoying. Another problem is that sometimes
all the space representing a tab will get highlighted (at least in
emacs-lisp mode). It seems like it may all be related to tabs. For
example, I'm in Fundamental mode now, as I type I'm sometimes getting
a ghost cursor left behind. In fact it just happened. Now if I select
the guilty text and do

~> cat -A
## paste in selected text
## <ctrl>-d
getting     a ghost curso
getting^Ia ghost^Icurso$

So where have those tab characters come from?

Thanks,

Dan

p.s. Very sorry if multiple copies of this post arrive; having problems.

Re: cursor/tab/highlighting problems in gnome-terminal

[Kevin Rodgers]

Dan Davison wrote:
> Another problem is that sometimes
> all the space representing a tab will get highlighted (at least in
> emacs-lisp mode).

Does `C-h v x-stretch-cursor' provide any clues?

-- 
Kevin Rodgers
Denver, Colorado, USA

Re: cursor/tab/highlighting problems in gnome-terminal

[Joel J. Adamson]

Dan Davison <davison@stats.ox.ac.uk> writes:

> I'm using emacs22 in a gnome-terminal under ubuntu hardy. 

Why?  Quick edits?  Remote session?

For whatever reason you're running in a terminal, there's probably
another way to do what you want with the X interface.

Also, xterm is a highly under-rated terminal emulator, and is very
configurable (give the man page a look).

Perhaps your problem is in how you choose to set things up, rather than
a real Emacs problem?

Joel
-- 
Joel J. Adamson
(303) 880-3109
Public key: http://pgp.mit.edu
http://www.unc.edu/~adamsonj
http://trashbird1240.blogspot.com

Re: cursor/tab/highlighting problems in gnome-terminal

[Dan Davison]

On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 02:05:30PM -0400, Joel J. Adamson wrote:
> Dan Davison <davison@stats.ox.ac.uk> writes:
> 
> > I'm using emacs22 in a gnome-terminal under ubuntu hardy. 
> 
> Why?  Quick edits?  Remote session?

I'm a command-line oriented linux user who for the last few years was
using a fairly aggressively minimalistic window manager
(ion3). However I finally decided I wasn't going to invest enough time
in the necessary lua scripting, and gave in and switched to
gnome. Then, I'm slightly embarrased to admit, I got hooked on all the
sliding between multiple desktops, zooming out and seeing all 9 of
them, transparency effects, etc, of compiz. So to answer your
question, I use bash shells a lot, and I use emacs a lot. I want all
my bash/emacs sessions to have the same 'feel' (same colours, fonts,
transparency, lack of unnecessary adornments) and that was easy to set
up by running emacs without X in gnome-terminals. gnome just provides
a desktop background image (no icons!!!). I don't have menu bars or
scrollbars or anything, and I can't see anything desirable about the
gtk version of emacs, but would be happy to be corrected on this
stance.

> 
> For whatever reason you're running in a terminal, there's probably
> another way to do what you want with the X interface.
> 
> Also, xterm is a highly under-rated terminal emulator, and is very
> configurable (give the man page a look).

Ermm, I'm a bit addicted to semi-transparency currently. I don't think
I can have that with xterm?

> 
> Perhaps your problem is in how you choose to set things up, rather than
> a real Emacs problem?

I do appreciate your suggestion. However ubuntu's default
gnome-terminal is otherwise giving me a nice experience and was very
simple to configure (automatically inherits nice-looking system fonts,
colours in bash via dircolors, transparency via idiots' sliding bar in
gtk configuration dialogue box, window decoration via beryl/emerald)

Dan

> 
> Joel
> -- 
> Joel J. Adamson
> (303) 880-3109
> Public key: http://pgp.mit.edu
> http://www.unc.edu/~adamsonj
> http://trashbird1240.blogspot.com

Re: cursor/tab/highlighting problems in gnome-terminal

[Joel J. Adamson]

Dan Davison <davison@stats.ox.ac.uk> writes:

> On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 02:05:30PM -0400, Joel J. Adamson wrote:
>> Dan Davison <davison@stats.ox.ac.uk> writes:
>> 
>> > I'm using emacs22 in a gnome-terminal under ubuntu hardy. 
>> 
>> Why?  Quick edits?  Remote session?
>
> I'm a command-line oriented linux user

So am I, but I still use X.  I like to spend a few minutes in virtual
console each week, to remind me what it feels like to use a real computer.

> who for the last few years was using a fairly aggressively
> minimalistic window manager (ion3). However I finally decided I wasn't
> going to invest enough time in the necessary lua scripting, and gave
> in and switched to gnome. 

GNOME's not your only choice.  You can still have a "minimalistic"
experience without going full-bore into a desktop.  I've been using
GNOME for the past few months and got tired of its inconfigurability
(using Metacity) and I've now reminded myself how much I love Fvwm.

> Then, I'm slightly embarrased to admit, I got hooked on all the
> sliding between multiple desktops, zooming out and seeing all 9 of
> them, transparency effects, etc, of compiz.

I know it's cool. I've had a hard time justifying it however.  It
doesn't really help me get my work done.  My new lab computer is more
tricked out, so I may find it easier to justify there than at home ;)

> So to answer your question, I use bash shells a lot, and I use emacs a
> lot. 

I used to do that, then I started running one Xterm and one Emacs, and
sometimes a shell in Emacs. 

> I want all my bash/emacs sessions to have the same 'feel' (same
> colours, fonts, transparency, lack of unnecessary adornments) and that
> was easy to set up by running emacs without X in
> gnome-terminals. 

Okay...

> gnome just provides a desktop background image (no icons!!!).

Huh?  I'll hesitate to use the word "wrong," but there may be something
_different_ about your configuration.  Do you mean you set it to be that
way, or that it was that way by default?  I've installed many distros
with GNOME (including Ubuntu), and GNOME on Slackware, and it has always
had desktop icons.  I have gotten rid of them, of course, but I think if
it was that way by default it may be a symptom of something else on your
system.

> I don't have menu bars or scrollbars or anything, and I can't see
> anything desirable about the gtk version of emacs, but would be happy
> to be corrected on this stance.
>

Well, to each his own, but how is there _nothing_ desirable?  I don't
use it instead of running it in a terminal because it's more beautiful
in the X interface; I run the X interface because it's easier to manage,
the font rendering is better, sometimes I want to use the menubar (e.g,
to learn new commands).  Also I prefer to have my Xterm windows fairly
small, and my Emacs screen rather large (sometimes full screen).  

>> For whatever reason you're running in a terminal, there's probably
>> another way to do what you want with the X interface.
>> 
>> Also, xterm is a highly under-rated terminal emulator, and is very
>> configurable (give the man page a look).
>
> Ermm, I'm a bit addicted to semi-transparency currently. I don't think
> I can have that with xterm?

Not unless you count transparency with compiz, although that should dull
the fonts as well as the background.  Xterm does a lot of things that I
wasn't aware of before a few months ago, but that's not one of them.

>> Perhaps your problem is in how you choose to set things up, rather than
>> a real Emacs problem?
>
> I do appreciate your suggestion. However ubuntu's default
> gnome-terminal is otherwise giving me a nice experience and was very
> simple to configure (automatically inherits nice-looking system fonts,
> colours in bash via dircolors, transparency via idiots' sliding bar in
> gtk configuration dialogue box, window decoration via beryl/emerald)

This won't give you transparency, but it makes Xterm look how I want it:

!XTerm
XTerm*font:		-xos4-terminus-medium-*-normal-*-12-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1
XTerm*background:	Black
XTerm*foreground:	White
XTerm*metaSendsEscape: 	True
XTerm*eightBitInput:	False

!Emacs
Emacs*font:	-xos4-terminus-medium-*-normal-*-12-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1
Emacs*cursorColor:	magenta
Emacs*foreground:	White
Emacs*background:	Black
!Emacs*fullscreen:	fullheight


Stick that in .Xdefaults and run "xrdb .Xdefaults" on it.

Joel
-- 
Joel J. Adamson
(303) 880-3109
Public key: http://pgp.mit.edu
http://www.unc.edu/~adamsonj
http://trashbird1240.blogspot.com

Re: cursor/tab/highlighting problems in gnome-terminal

[Joel J. Adamson]

adamsonj@email.unc.edu (Joel J. Adamson) writes:

> GNOME's not your only choice.  You can still have a "minimalistic"
> experience without going full-bore into a desktop.

Oops.  I meant "non-minimalistic."  I should have said you don't have to
be "maximalistic."

Joel
-- 
Joel J. Adamson
(303) 880-3109
Public key: http://pgp.mit.edu
http://www.unc.edu/~adamsonj
http://trashbird1240.blogspot.com

Re: cursor/tab/highlighting problems in gnome-terminal

[Miles Bader]

adamsonj@email.unc.edu (Joel J. Adamson) writes:
> Also, xterm is a highly under-rated terminal emulator, and is very
> configurable (give the man page a look).
>
> Perhaps your problem is in how you choose to set things up, rather than
> a real Emacs problem?

gnome-terminal is a very capable terminal emulator though, and runs
emacs fine as far as I can tell.

[The original report is quite confusing, so it's very hard to tell
exactly what the problem even is...]

-Miles

-- 
Selfish, adj. Devoid of consideration for the selfishness of others.

Re: cursor/tab/highlighting problems in gnome-terminal

[Joel J. Adamson]

Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org> writes:

> adamsonj@email.unc.edu (Joel J. Adamson) writes:
>> Also, xterm is a highly under-rated terminal emulator, and is very
>> configurable (give the man page a look).
>>
>> Perhaps your problem is in how you choose to set things up, rather than
>> a real Emacs problem?
>
> gnome-terminal is a very capable terminal emulator though, and runs
> emacs fine as far as I can tell.

I agree, however I've found that for a lot of things where I went
"against the grain" I later found a much easier way to do things.
Editing remote files, for example, is much easier using tramp than
relying on the remote system's version of Emacs (my university has not
updated Emacs since 2000).

I also thought Xterm was crap until I gave it a real shot, and now I use
it all the time.

Joel
-- 
Joel J. Adamson
(303) 880-3109
Public key: http://pgp.mit.edu
http://www.unc.edu/~adamsonj
http://trashbird1240.blogspot.com

Re: cursor/tab/highlighting problems in gnome-terminal

[Dan Davison]

On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 08:34:11AM +0900, Miles Bader wrote:
> adamsonj@email.unc.edu (Joel J. Adamson) writes:
> > Also, xterm is a highly under-rated terminal emulator, and is very
> > configurable (give the man page a look).
> >
> > Perhaps your problem is in how you choose to set things up, rather than
> > a real Emacs problem?
> 
> gnome-terminal is a very capable terminal emulator though, and runs
> emacs fine as far as I can tell.
> 
> [The original report is quite confusing, so it's very hard to tell
> exactly what the problem even is...]

Fair enough! Let me try to give a concrete example. I have a buffer in
Emacs-Lisp mode, and type the characters

'(defun'

fine. Now I try to add a space after the n. In stead of the (yellow)
cursor moving on and shopwing space between iteself and the 'n', I get
a yellow block two characters wide. Now I examine exactly what sort of
characters are present, by selecting the text and submitting it on
standard input to cat -A in a bash shell. The answer is

(defun^I$

So it put in a tab instead of a space after 'defun'. Why? The same
thing is happening currently in Fundamental mode:

y^Ito add^Ia space^Iafter the n. In^Istead$

At each of these spurious tab characters, an inactive 'copy' of the
cursor gets left behind, so after a while my buffer has one real
cursor and several pretend ones. I am not experiencing this in bash;
just emacs -nw.

Dan

(admittedly I have no idea why I put whitespace in 'instead'...)


> 
> -Miles
> 
> -- 
> Selfish, adj. Devoid of consideration for the selfishness of others.

Re: cursor/tab/highlighting problems in gnome-terminal

[Miles Bader]

Dan Davison <davison@stats.ox.ac.uk> writes:
> '(defun'
>
> fine. Now I try to add a space after the n. In stead of the (yellow)
> cursor moving on and shopwing space between iteself and the 'n', I get
> a yellow block two characters wide.

Interesting, that happens for me too, it does really seem to be a bug in
gnome-terminal.  It doesn't seem to happen if font-locking is turned
off.

> Now I examine exactly what sort of
> characters are present, by selecting the text and submitting it on
> standard input to cat -A in a bash shell. The answer is
>
> (defun^I$
>
> So it put in a tab instead of a space after 'defun'. Why?

Note that what emacs sends to the terminal is _not_ the same as what's
in the buffer, it's a sequence of characters which should make the
terminal render the display Emacs wants to present.

In particular, the terminal redisplay engine can send a TAB character to
move the cursor when it thinks that will be more efficient (in other
circumstances, it might send a sequence of spaces or a cursor-addressing
escape sequence).

-Miles

-- 
Optimist, n. A proponent of the doctrine that black is white.

Re: cursor/tab/highlighting problems in gnome-terminal

[Sven Joachim]

On 2008-07-11 12:46 +0200, Dan Davison wrote:

> I'm using emacs22 in a gnome-terminal under ubuntu hardy. My problem
> is that I'm experiencing strange and apparently unpredictable cursor
> problems.

This seems to be a problem with gnome-terminal, see
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=514632.

Sven

Re: cursor/tab/highlighting problems in gnome-terminal

[Dan Davison]

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 03:41:15PM +0200, Sven Joachim wrote:
> On 2008-07-11 12:46 +0200, Dan Davison wrote:
> 
> > I'm using emacs22 in a gnome-terminal under ubuntu hardy. My problem
> > is that I'm experiencing strange and apparently unpredictable cursor
> > problems.
> 
> This seems to be a problem with gnome-terminal, see
> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=514632.


OK, thanks a lot for that Sven. That thread contains a mysterious
workaround:

(setq column-number-mode t)

That does seem to make all the problems go away for me. No idea why
though.

Dan



> 
> Sven