accented letters ( typing in )

accented letters ( typing in )

[Michel Chassey]

Hello everyone,
I have this version installed :
GNU Emacs 23.4.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.18) of 2013-06-17
on komainu, modified by Debian
Emacs displays all accented letters flawlessly from my files but I cannot
type in these accented letters. 
é can by typed in but none the others like è ê à â . I can type these
letters anywhere ( as you can see ) but not in emacs.

My OS is Ubuntu 13.10 ( just upgraded )

Hoe you can help
Michel Chassey





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Re: accented letters ( typing in )

[Gregor Zattler]

Hi Michel,
* Michel Chassey <mycuser@gmail.com> [17. Jan. 2014]:
> I have this version installed :
> GNU Emacs 23.4.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.18) of 2013-06-17
> on komainu, modified by Debian
> Emacs displays all accented letters flawlessly from my files but I cannot
> type in these accented letters. 
> é can by typed in but none the others like è ê à â . I can type these
> letters anywhere ( as you can see ) but not in emacs.
> 
> My OS is Ubuntu 13.10 ( just upgraded )

I'm no expert on this topic.  But I think Chaper 22.3 Input
Methords and the next few ones of the Emacs Manual would help.
There are various input methods for various languages.

Another way of dealing with the problem is to configure the
keyboard.  I have configured the Caps Lock key to function as a
compose key in /etc/default/keyboard like so:

# KEYBOARD CONFIGURATION FILE

# Consult the keyboard(5) manual page.

XKBMODEL="apple_laptop"
#or "macbook79"
XKBLAYOUT="de"
XKBVARIANT="mac_nodeadkeys"
XKBOPTIONS="compose:caps,lv3:rwin_switch,eurosign:e,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"

BACKSPACE="guess"



Ciao, Gregor
-- 
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Re: accented letters ( typing in )

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 17.01.2014 um 19:20 schrieb Michel Chassey:

> é can by typed in but none the others like è ê à â . I can type these
> letters anywhere ( as you can see ) but not in emacs.

Maybe it helps to set in GNU Emacs' environment variables like LANG or LC_CTYPE to a different value than C, a 7-bit locale, to one that allows 8 -bit characters – or even a value like fr_FR.UTF-8. Then you need to choose a suitable keyboard for the X server, one that has the accents as "dead keys". This works for me – but I am not using Ubuntu…

--
Greetings

  Pete

The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is the day they start selling vacuum cleaners.
				– Ernest Jan Plugge

Re: accented letters ( typing in )

[Óscar Fuentes]

Michel Chassey <mycuser@gmail.com> writes:

> Hello everyone,
> I have this version installed :
> GNU Emacs 23.4.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.18) of 2013-06-17
> on komainu, modified by Debian
> Emacs displays all accented letters flawlessly from my files but I cannot
> type in these accented letters. 
> é can by typed in but none the others like è ê à â . I can type these
> letters anywhere ( as you can see ) but not in emacs.
>
> My OS is Ubuntu 13.10 ( just upgraded )

As others suggested, one solution is to set the X keyboard to something
that allows it. This is what I did on my Kubuntu install. As you say
that you can type those characters elsewhere but not in Emacs, possibly
you have those settings in place, but for some reason they don't work
for Emacs.

If you type ' do you see the apostrophe righ away or do you need to type
it twice or followed by a space?

Another option is to

M-x set-input-method [ENTER] spanish-prefix [ENTER]

and then (IIRC)

'e -> é
"u -> ü
~n -> ñ

Those may work too:

^a -> â
`e -> è

If not, select another input method (french-prefix, etc).

Beware that your X keyboard settings may clash with Emacs input method.

See the info node for "International Character Set Support".

Re: accented letters ( typing in )

[Emanuel Berg]

Michel Chassey <mycuser@gmail.com> writes:

> é can by typed in but none the others like è ê à â.
> I can type these letters anywhere (as you can see)
> but not in emacs.

Input methods and the compose key are two solutions,
but probably not optimal ones if you are accustomed to
typing those letters in another way, and that way, they
work everywhere else.

How do you input those chars? Did you set that up or
did it always work?

Are you running a GUI Emacs? (The one that appears if
you type 'emacs' in an X terminal.)

What happens if you instead run with -nw (for
'--no-window-system') - does it work, then? If it
doesn't, do those chars work in the terminal itself
(before you start Emacs)? What terminal do you use?
Did you configure it?

This sounds like a misconfiguration along the way
(which happens, of course), or perhaps a mistake higher
up. The post (on this list) that mentioned the locale
is a good start. Learning (new) input methods or
setting up and learning the compose key are general
solutions to the problem of goofy chars but in your
case I'd discourage and I don't think you should have
to.

-- 
underground experts united:
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Re: accented letters ( typing in )

[Stefan Monnier]

> GNU Emacs 23.4.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.18) of 2013-06-17
[...]
> I can type these letters anywhere ( as you can see ) but not in Emacs.

Sounds like a bug in Emacs.  You might like to try a more recent version
or to report the problem via M-x report-emacs-bug.
Can you type those letters into a /usr/bin/xterm?


        Stefan

Re: accented letters ( typing in )

[Bob Proulx]

Michel Chassey wrote:
> Emacs displays all accented letters flawlessly from my files but I cannot
> type in these accented letters. 
> é can by typed in but none the others like è ê à â . I can type these
> letters anywhere ( as you can see ) but not in emacs.
> My OS is Ubuntu 13.10 ( just upgraded )

Are you running Emacs in X11 or from a terminal?  If you can type in
those characters anywhere then it should work within emacs too.  It
makes no sense to me.  Therefore I am going to ignore that and simply
give generic keyboard configuration advice as if I had not read it.
Perhaps some of it might even be useful.

You can use C-x 8 in Emacs as the compose key for most common
sequences.  For example C-x 8 ` e for è and so forth.  See the emacs
"22.18 Unibyte Editing Mode" section of the manual.  That can be used
even on keyboards that are not configured for the compose key.  (Such
as if logged in remotely from a foreign keyboard.)  However not all
compose key sequences are available within emacs.  Only the compose
key sequences for the latin1 character set.  Use C-x 8 C-h to list out
a full list of C-x 8 translations available.

But that only works within emacs.  Therefore I think you will be
better off if you configure your system to input those characters at
the system level.  Then it will work correctly everywhere.  So instead
of learning an emacs specific way I would set up a global system way.

On Debian (and I assume on Ubuntu which is a fork) you can configure
your keyboard to create a compose key.

  sudo dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration

That asks what to set up for AltGr and Compose.  I select Right Alt
for AltGR and Menu for Compose.  (I also select the X terminate key of
control-alt-backspace.)  That resulted in this configuration in the
/etc/default/keyboard file.

  XKBOPTIONS="lv3:ralt_switch,compose:menu,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"

That will take effect the next time X is started.  But you can
dynamically change the running session by calling the setxkbmap
command to set it for the running session.

  setxkbmap -model pc104 -layout us -option compose:menu -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp

Select the layout appropriate to your system.  The above is for my US
keyboard.  That sets up the Compose key.  (As well as the X terminate
key.  You might not want that.  The key sequence kills the current X
session and logs you out immediately.)  At that point you should be
able to use the right menu key as the compose key.

The choice of Right Alt or Right Control might be most general as all
PC keyboards have those keys.  My laptop does not have a right logo
key.  It does have a menu key.  Other keyboards have a Right Logo key.
People must simply pick one of the several possibilities and there is
no single right answer.  Here are some possible selections that you
might select one of them and try.

  setxkbmap -model pc104 -layout us -option compose:rctrl
  setxkbmap -model pc104 -layout us -option compose:menu
  setxkbmap -model pc104 -layout us -option compose:rwin

To activate an AltGr key (another way to create special characters)
use the -variant altgr-intl option.  Here is another example.

  setxkbmap -model pc104 -layout us -variant altgr-intl -option compose:rctrl -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp

With that you get both the Compose key and the AltGr key.  Both work.
You can either build the characters with Compose ' e for é or can use
the AltGr e for é.  Personally I prefer the compose key method over
the AltGr method.  It works better with my brain.  Select the one you
prefer.

This following file documents the compose key sequences.  Browse that
file to determine what sequence you need for the characters you will
be typing in.

  /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose

That lists many useful combinations.  Searching for a desired
character cut and pasted into search yields the input keys needed to
produce it.  Very useful.

Here are some common compose key sequences.  Type the keys one after
the other.  Tap, tap, tap.  Do not hold down the compose key as it is
not a shift key and not a control key.  Here are just a few of the
possibilities.

  â = Compose ^ a
  Å = Compose o A
  è = Compose ` e
  ü = Compose " u

Since you are using Ubuntu and the system input method is system
specific you might want to ask this question on the ubuntu-user
mailing list.  Or if you decide something is a bug you might want to
submit a bug into the Ubuntu bug tracker.  Because other system will
configure this in their own unique ways.

Hope that helps,
Bob

Re: accented letters ( typing in )

[Michel Chassey]

Thanks for all your suggestions. To help clarify my set-up, I'm running
emacs from the GUI and have enjoyed it since ubuntu 9 first installed it.
Running emacs from the ctrl + meta + F1 terminal produces weird chars when
I try accented chars.
I'm still a noob when setting up environment variables . Ubuntu keyboard
system have not changed but maybe as one poster suggests it is a bug. The
only thing that works right now is the CTRL + 8 compose method. I have
tried changing input methods but no cigar .

One question an OP has asked is how the apostrophe works and it gets typed
in the first time. Another poster suggested a newer version of emacs and I
will try that.

Hope you can help on this
Michel Chassey



2014/1/17 Bob Proulx [via Emacs] <ml-node+s1067599n310696h73@n5.nabble.com>

> Michel Chassey wrote:
> > Emacs displays all accented letters flawlessly from my files but I
> cannot
> > type in these accented letters.
> > é can by typed in but none the others like è ê à â . I can type these
> > letters anywhere ( as you can see ) but not in emacs.
> > My OS is Ubuntu 13.10 ( just upgraded )
>
> Are you running Emacs in X11 or from a terminal?  If you can type in
> those characters anywhere then it should work within emacs too.  It
> makes no sense to me.  Therefore I am going to ignore that and simply
> give generic keyboard configuration advice as if I had not read it.
> Perhaps some of it might even be useful.
>
> You can use C-x 8 in Emacs as the compose key for most common
> sequences.  For example C-x 8 ` e for è and so forth.  See the emacs
> "22.18 Unibyte Editing Mode" section of the manual.  That can be used
> even on keyboards that are not configured for the compose key.  (Such
> as if logged in remotely from a foreign keyboard.)  However not all
> compose key sequences are available within emacs.  Only the compose
> key sequences for the latin1 character set.  Use C-x 8 C-h to list out
> a full list of C-x 8 translations available.
>
> But that only works within emacs.  Therefore I think you will be
> better off if you configure your system to input those characters at
> the system level.  Then it will work correctly everywhere.  So instead
> of learning an emacs specific way I would set up a global system way.
>
> On Debian (and I assume on Ubuntu which is a fork) you can configure
> your keyboard to create a compose key.
>
>   sudo dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration
>
> That asks what to set up for AltGr and Compose.  I select Right Alt
> for AltGR and Menu for Compose.  (I also select the X terminate key of
> control-alt-backspace.)  That resulted in this configuration in the
> /etc/default/keyboard file.
>
>   XKBOPTIONS="lv3:ralt_switch,compose:menu,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
>
> That will take effect the next time X is started.  But you can
> dynamically change the running session by calling the setxkbmap
> command to set it for the running session.
>
>   setxkbmap -model pc104 -layout us -option compose:menu -option
> terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
>
> Select the layout appropriate to your system.  The above is for my US
> keyboard.  That sets up the Compose key.  (As well as the X terminate
> key.  You might not want that.  The key sequence kills the current X
> session and logs you out immediately.)  At that point you should be
> able to use the right menu key as the compose key.
>
> The choice of Right Alt or Right Control might be most general as all
> PC keyboards have those keys.  My laptop does not have a right logo
> key.  It does have a menu key.  Other keyboards have a Right Logo key.
> People must simply pick one of the several possibilities and there is
> no single right answer.  Here are some possible selections that you
> might select one of them and try.
>
>   setxkbmap -model pc104 -layout us -option compose:rctrl
>   setxkbmap -model pc104 -layout us -option compose:menu
>   setxkbmap -model pc104 -layout us -option compose:rwin
>
> To activate an AltGr key (another way to create special characters)
> use the -variant altgr-intl option.  Here is another example.
>
>   setxkbmap -model pc104 -layout us -variant altgr-intl -option
> compose:rctrl -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
>
> With that you get both the Compose key and the AltGr key.  Both work.
> You can either build the characters with Compose ' e for é or can use
> the AltGr e for é.  Personally I prefer the compose key method over
> the AltGr method.  It works better with my brain.  Select the one you
> prefer.
>
> This following file documents the compose key sequences.  Browse that
> file to determine what sequence you need for the characters you will
> be typing in.
>
>   /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose
>
> That lists many useful combinations.  Searching for a desired
> character cut and pasted into search yields the input keys needed to
> produce it.  Very useful.
>
> Here are some common compose key sequences.  Type the keys one after
> the other.  Tap, tap, tap.  Do not hold down the compose key as it is
> not a shift key and not a control key.  Here are just a few of the
> possibilities.
>
>   â = Compose ^ a
>   Å = Compose o A
>   è = Compose ` e
>   ü = Compose " u
>
> Since you are using Ubuntu and the system input method is system
> specific you might want to ask this question on the ubuntu-user
> mailing list.  Or if you decide something is a bug you might want to
> submit a bug into the Ubuntu bug tracker.  Because other system will
> configure this in their own unique ways.
>
> Hope that helps,
> Bob
>
>
>
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Re: accented letters ( typing in )

[Emanuel Berg]

Michel Chassey <mycuser@gmail.com> writes:

> Thanks for all your suggestions. To help clarify my
> set-up, I'm running emacs from the GUI and have
> enjoyed it since ubuntu 9 first installed it.
> Running emacs from the ctrl + meta + F1 terminal
> produces weird chars when I try accented chars.

To help you test further: Also try to run Emacs in a
terminal *in X*. Start a terminal, be it urxvt, xterm,
gnome-terminal, or what Ubuntu uses - look in the
menus, I guess - then type 'emacs' (to get the GUI, the
same as you get if you click an Emacs icon on the
Ubuntu desktop), and then instead try 'emacs -nw'. You
will see a slightly different thing. Does it work
there? Does it work in the terminal itself - that is,
with no Emacs (or anything) running?

-- 
underground experts united:
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: accented letters ( typing in )

[Emanuel Berg]

Bob Proulx <bob@proulx.com> writes:

> On Debian (and I assume on Ubuntu which is a fork)
> you can configure your keyboard to create a compose
> key.

That's interesting, because the Ubuntu is *dropping* X
for their own window system, Mir ("world" or "peace" in
Russian, perhaps unrelated), which they want because
they say X isn't flexible enough for their (Ubuntu's)
thrust on devices, and they (Ubuntu) have lost
confidence in Wayland. Kubuntu though, the "female"
Ubuntu that uses KDE instead of Gnome, will keep X and
keep supporting Wayland. Now, they are not crazy enough
to completely drop X, as it will be shipped even on
Ubuntu, with XMir in between, because there are so many
tools (and scripts) that rely on X. Still, I have
absolutely no idea what "old X stuff" will work
seamlessly on future Ubuntu releases and its many
sub-distros...

(Or so I've been told, I use Debian like you.)

By the way, great post. Keep it if this question
rearises, put it in a FAQ, or carve it on a sand
beach...

-- 
underground experts united:
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: accented letters ( typing in )

[Bob Proulx]

Michel Chassey wrote:
> Running emacs from the ctrl + meta + F1 terminal produces weird chars when
> I try accented chars.

> I'm still a noob when setting up environment variables . Ubuntu keyboard
> system have not changed but maybe as one poster suggests it is a bug. The
> only thing that works right now is the CTRL + 8 compose method. I have
> tried changing input methods but no cigar .

What is produced in the terminal Without running emacs but just typing
in those characters?  If you start the terminal and then try typing in
those accented characters what is produced?

If it works in the terminal then it should work in emacs running in
the terminal.  If it doesn't work in the terminal then it can't work
in emacs running in the terminal either.

The terminal test is a good test of what the system supports outside
of emacs.  The GUI version of emacs uses a different input method
however.  Since you said you normally use the GUI version of emacs
then that part will still need to be solved.

> One question an OP has asked is how the apostrophe works and it gets typed
> in the first time. Another poster suggested a newer version of emacs and I
> will try that.

This emacs functionality has been quite stable for me across many
years of versions.  I really doubt it is an emacs bug that is causing
you this problem.  I use emacs 23 on many Debian systems and this
works for me.

You said you were running Ubuntu 13.10 with emacs 23.  That seems
unusual since I think Ubuntu 2013.10 would have been emacs 24.
Perhaps your system wasn't fully upgraded to 13.10?  I know that there
have been significant recent changes to the console and keyboard in
Debian and I assume in Ubuntu too.  Therefore I think that much more
likely.

It is good that the C-x 8 compose method is working and that is why it
is there.  To provide a system independent way to generate those
characters inside emacs.  Also it seems to be saying that emacs is
handling this okay.  If the system keyboard compose key entered those
then I believe it should handle it okay too.

Bob

Re: accented letters ( typing in )

[Bob Proulx]

Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Bob Proulx writes:
> > On Debian (and I assume on Ubuntu which is a fork)
> > you can configure your keyboard to create a compose
> > key.
> 
> That's interesting, because the Ubuntu is *dropping* X
> for their own window system, Mir ("world" or "peace" in
> Russian, perhaps unrelated), which they want because
> they say X isn't flexible enough for their (Ubuntu's)
> thrust on devices,

Canonical wants the cell phone market.  X is probably too heavy to use
on cell phones.  With that in mind it makes sense that Ubuntu would
want something very light for use in the cell phone area.  That is the
purpose of Mir.

> and they (Ubuntu) have lost confidence in Wayland.

AFAIK Wayland was a feature change to support "compositing" such as
multiple concurrent video streams and 3D and other shiny features that
isn't natively supported by X.  But that probably takes it out of the
cell phone market too.  And so they still need to go to Mir there.

> Kubuntu though, the "female" Ubuntu that uses KDE instead of Gnome,

What makes Kubuntu female?  I have always considered all of the window
systems gender neutral "its".

> will keep X and keep supporting Wayland. Now, they are not crazy
> enough to completely drop X, as it will be shipped even on Ubuntu,
> with XMir in between, because there are so many tools (and scripts)
> that rely on X.

"Time is what prevents everything from happening at once."  If they
could they would.  They can't yet.  So they haven't.  At least not
yet.  I predict that they will.  It will just take them more time to
get there.

Bob

Re: accented letters ( typing in )

[Axel E. Retif]

On 01/17/2014 12:20 PM, Michel Chassey wrote:


> I have this version installed :
> GNU Emacs 23.4.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.18)

[I also use Ubuntu 13.10.] Though I compile my own Emacs in ~/bin, I see 
that in the Ubuntu repositories there is Emacs 24.3+1-1ubuntu3., so you 
might as well update your Emacs.

Also, as Peter Dyballa has suggested, I use an international keyboard 
layout with “dead keys”.

As a matter of fact, I have two keyboard layouts: «English (US, 
international with dead keys)» and «Spanish». I prefer to use the 
English layout because I have easier access to some symbols (|, \, etc.) 
with it. You can change and add keyboard layouts in System Settings -> 
Text Entry.

Also, I can type accented characters with Alt Gr + vowel.


Best

Axel

Re: accented letters ( typing in )

[Emanuel Berg]

"Axel E. Retif" <axel.retif@mac.com> writes:

> As a matter of fact, I have two keyboard layouts:
> «English (US, international with dead keys)» and
> «Spanish». I prefer to use the English layout because
> I have easier access to some symbols (|, \, etc.)
> with it.

I'm glad you say this, because this is what I always
said, the US layout is better, in particular for
programmers. But I still need to write in Swedish now
and then, and I can't switch back and forth because
that would make me sea sick. So for the Swedish chars I
setup the compose key. The benefit of the compose key
is that it works in the ttys *and* in X, so it is a
system-wide solution. And I think this is the way the
compose key should be used: for really exotic chars
(which are used extremely seldom, but when so you can
"compose" them in a logical way), *or* for the hybrid
situation I just mentioned. In the OP's case, the
compose key would be a tedious workaround. (But a
solution is a solution, for sure.)

-- 
underground experts united:
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: accented letters ( typing in )

[Emanuel Berg]

Bob Proulx <bob@proulx.com> writes:

> Canonical wants the cell phone market.  X is probably
> too heavy to use on cell phones.  With that in mind
> it makes sense that Ubuntu would want something very
> light for use in the cell phone area.  That is the
> purpose of Mir.
>
> AFAIK Wayland was a feature change to support
> "compositing" such as multiple concurrent video
> streams and 3D and other shiny features that isn't
> natively supported by X.  But that probably takes it
> out of the cell phone market too.  And so they still
> need to go to Mir there.

Yes, a very plausible summary.

>> Kubuntu though, the "female" Ubuntu that uses KDE
>> instead of Gnome,
>
> What makes Kubuntu female?  I have always considered
> all of the window systems gender neutral "its".

People say that. Gnome is perhaps big, and confident,
while KDE is more low-key but not without charm and
subtle elegance. (Just speculating.)

> "Time is what prevents everything from happening at
> once."  If they could they would.  They can't yet.
> So they haven't.  At least not yet.  I predict that
> they will.  It will just take them more time to get
> there.

I don't know what to think of Ubuntu on the device
market. People say Android is open, but it sure doesn't
feel like a Linux system. I guess you could say even
Windows is "open" because it is portable. Linux on cell
phones won't make it any worse, I don't think, but will
it make it better? I hope so!

-- 
underground experts united:
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