From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Powe Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: New Emacs with GTK! Date: 23 Mar 2003 11:10:49 -0500 Organization: The Hospice of the Mind Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <87vfya3vxy.fsf@cecilia.trollope.org> References: <87el4z9t43.fsf@cecilia.trollope.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1048445293 7104 80.91.224.249 (23 Mar 2003 18:48:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 18:48:13 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 23 19:48:11 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18xAVv-0001qR-00 for ; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 19:48:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18xATE-0004TE-05 for gnu-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Mar 2003 13:45:24 -0500 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.isc.org!sjc70.webusenet.com!sjc72.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 82 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: p-761.newsdawg.com X-Home-Page: http://www.trollope.org X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.8.8/GNU Emacs 21.2.1 [Linux 2.4.5] X-PGP: http://www.trollope.org/pgp.txt User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.2 Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:111326 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:7829 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:7829 >>>>> "Niels" == Niels Freimann writes: >> actually, i doubt it. i'm sure that there are many who, like >> me, do the bulk of their editing in -- gasp -- the console. >> gtk will be worthless to us Niels> emacs was introduced to me in the early 90th by a person Niels> who belongs to the developers. What he installed on my Niels> machine was X11 emacs. I never saw anybody editing in the Niels> console seriousely. Therefore I don't believe that too Niels> many of people do editing in the console. This people may Niels> use zile or something. Niels> I fully subscribe to Miles saying that "I expect that once Niels> the GTK version hits prime-time, it will get a lot more Niels> maintenance attention than the other versions " Niels> Furthermore I expect that, when the GTKversion hits Niels> prime-time, the developers will remove all the Niels> anachronistic xlib and motif code for the reason of a much Niels> slimmer code which will be much more open to the community Niels> for maintenance. since a few people replied by mail to my comments, let me summarize my responses. how many versions of unix include gtk libraries? i suspect the answer is 'none,' but someone can apprise me if i'm wrong. i know they are not on solaris 8, openbsd 2.7 or sunos 4.1 because i have those. i'd be very surprised if they were on freebsd, just because they are gpl. therefore, restricting emacs to gtk means restricting its use to linux users who use gnome. not likely. this is not a hot-button issue for me, but obviously it is for some others. the chances that i would ever compile gtk-emacs are near zero.(although, the other day, i compiled and installed xemacs; used it once. so, anything is possible when i'm bored. ;-) everybody else is free to do as they please. this does remind me somewhat of the religious wars between xemacs and gnu emacs of some years back. i personally do not give a rip about "themes," or how "pretty" my editor is. emacs is a tool and a damned good one. i use it because it does everything i want an editor to do. whether i'm in the console, as now, or in x, as i was yesterday, my primary concern is that my tools function well. (the reason i use xfce rather than gnome.) everyone has their sources of amusement. some people fool around with their desktop. i watch chess on the chess server. but, at least i'm not confused that fics is somehow a necessity of life. nor do i think that everybody should be REQUIRED to watch chess on fics and not on ics or some other server. as for the comment about how "nobody works in the console," well, probably nearly everyone who, like me, works remotely, DOES use the console. when i'm working on a web site, i can edit and create files directly on site because -- shock, horror -- i can use emacs in a terminal. since i routinely work on shell connections to solaris and linux boxes, being able to work comfortably in the terminal is a job requirement. (yes, i also can work comfortably with vi.) when i'm travelling, i ssh home for both work and mail. most of the time, x forwarding is impossible or impractical, even if i wanted to waste time with it. i seriously doubt that i am an isolated case in this regard. i think perhaps some people are prone to think that the whole world is, or should be, just like them and their friends. it's not. it shouldn't be. for me, personally, the editor of choice is and probably always will be GNU Emacs, God's Own Editor(tm). whatever choices rms makes about its future will be fine with me. i trust him. i just don't happen to think he's going to limit it to gtk users. from the console, mp -- Michael Powe Waterbury, CT USA ------------------------------------------------------------------- "It stands to reason that self-righteous, inflexible, single-minded, authoritarian true believers are politically organized. Open-minded, flexible, complex, ambiguous, anti-authoritarian people would just as soon be left to mind their own fucking business." - R.U. Sirius