From: "Óscar Fuentes" <ofv@wanadoo.es>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: CVE-2017-14482 - Red Hat Customer Portal
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 16:42:54 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87vak8rwcx.fsf@qcore> (raw)
In-Reply-To: a8d32684-c40b-7dbe-2570-4c69276f383e@yandex.com
Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> writes:
> It is true that formal verification of a program requires several times
> the effort compared to writing a comparable non-verified program (but
> with many bugs). I argue that this effort is necessary, because it is
> the only way to write correct software.
>
> I think you will agree that although writing undocumented software is
> easier than writing well-documented software, writing documentation is
> part of software development and thus undocumented software must be
> considered incomplete. In the same way, I extend this to the claim that
> formal verification is part of software development and thus unverified
> software is incomplete.
>
> Although writing incomplete software is easier than writing complete
> software, the task should not be considered solved. It is like just
> building half of a bridge. Surely it is easier than building all of it;
> but it is not enough.
It seems that you think that formal verification says that the software
is correct. That's in theory. Practice is different, as usual.
Instead of writing a lengthy explanation about why formal verification
can't be a guarantee about the correctness of a piece of sotware, I'll
simply reference a study about failures on verified systems:
https://blog.acolyer.org/2017/05/29/an-empirical-study-on-the-correctness-of-formally-verified-distributed-systems/
"Through code review and testing, we found a total of 16 bugs, many of
which produce serious consequences, including crashing servers,
returning incorrect results to clients, and invalidating verification
guarantees."
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2017-09-24 14:42 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 68+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2017-09-21 21:51 CVE-2017-14482 - Red Hat Customer Portal ken
2017-09-21 22:03 ` Kaushal Modi
2017-09-21 23:07 ` ken
2017-09-22 7:37 ` Alberto Luaces
2017-09-22 7:48 ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-22 20:12 ` Mario Castelán Castro
2017-09-22 22:14 ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-24 2:08 ` Mario Castelán Castro
[not found] ` <mailman.1063.1506218941.14750.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2017-09-24 6:47 ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-24 13:38 ` Mario Castelán Castro
2017-09-24 14:42 ` Óscar Fuentes [this message]
2017-09-24 14:54 ` tomas
2017-09-26 18:57 ` Narendra Joshi
2017-09-24 23:06 ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-25 21:23 ` Mario Castelán Castro
2017-09-25 21:49 ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-26 1:43 ` Mario Castelán Castro
2017-09-26 2:17 ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-25 21:11 ` Mario Castelán Castro
2017-09-25 23:58 ` Óscar Fuentes
2017-09-26 14:46 ` Mario Castelán Castro
2017-09-26 23:31 ` Óscar Fuentes
2017-09-29 20:21 ` Mario Castelán Castro
2017-09-29 12:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-09-29 14:59 ` dekkzz78
2017-09-29 16:51 ` Óscar Fuentes
2017-09-29 17:20 ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-29 18:27 ` Óscar Fuentes
2017-09-29 19:45 ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-29 20:06 ` Óscar Fuentes
2017-09-29 23:24 ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-29 18:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-09-24 23:07 ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-23 10:05 ` Charles A. Roelli
2017-09-23 12:53 ` Óscar Fuentes
2017-09-23 13:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-09-23 17:18 ` Glenn Morris
2017-09-23 17:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-09-23 20:50 ` Yuri Khan
2017-09-24 2:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-09-24 7:13 ` Philipp Stephani
2017-09-24 18:29 ` Robert Thorpe
2017-09-29 8:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-09-29 20:28 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-09-29 23:28 ` Emanuel Berg
2017-10-03 0:52 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-10-03 1:04 ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-29 7:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.1068.1506237251.14750.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2017-09-24 7:48 ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-25 21:26 ` Glenn Morris
2017-09-25 22:02 ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-25 22:08 ` Ludwig, Mark
2017-09-26 5:50 ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-26 13:40 ` Ludwig, Mark
2017-09-26 17:46 ` Philipp Stephani
2017-09-26 19:00 ` Ludwig, Mark
2017-09-29 13:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-09-29 9:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-09-26 18:44 ` Narendra Joshi
2017-09-26 18:51 ` Philipp Stephani
[not found] ` <mailman.988.1506161159.14750.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2017-09-24 6:31 ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-22 16:40 ` ken
2017-09-22 19:07 ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-23 20:27 ` Bob Proulx
[not found] ` <mailman.1053.1506198486.14750.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2017-09-24 6:38 ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-24 17:17 ` Maxim Cournoyer
2017-09-24 22:38 ` Emanuel Berg
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2017-09-27 10:51 Richard Melville
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=87vak8rwcx.fsf@qcore \
--to=ofv@wanadoo.es \
--cc=help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).