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From: "Óscar Fuentes" <ofv@wanadoo.es>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: CVE-2017-14482 - Red Hat Customer Portal
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 16:42:54 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87vak8rwcx.fsf@qcore> (raw)
In-Reply-To: a8d32684-c40b-7dbe-2570-4c69276f383e@yandex.com

Mario Castelán Castro <marioxcc.MT@yandex.com> writes:

> It is true that formal verification of a program requires several times
> the effort compared to writing a comparable non-verified program (but
> with many bugs). I argue that this effort is necessary, because it is
> the only way to write correct software.
>
> I think you will agree that although writing undocumented software is
> easier than writing well-documented software, writing documentation is
> part of software development and thus undocumented software must be
> considered incomplete. In the same way, I extend this to the claim that
> formal verification is part of software development and thus unverified
> software is incomplete.
>
> Although writing incomplete software is easier than writing complete
> software, the task should not be considered solved. It is like just
> building half of a bridge. Surely it is easier than building all of it;
> but it is not enough.

It seems that you think that formal verification says that the software
is correct. That's in theory. Practice is different, as usual.

Instead of writing a lengthy explanation about why formal verification
can't be a guarantee about the correctness of a piece of sotware, I'll
simply reference a study about failures on verified systems:

https://blog.acolyer.org/2017/05/29/an-empirical-study-on-the-correctness-of-formally-verified-distributed-systems/

  "Through code review and testing, we found a total of 16 bugs, many of
   which produce serious consequences, including crashing servers,
   returning incorrect results to clients, and invalidating verification
   guarantees."




  reply	other threads:[~2017-09-24 14:42 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 68+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-09-21 21:51 CVE-2017-14482 - Red Hat Customer Portal ken
2017-09-21 22:03 ` Kaushal Modi
2017-09-21 23:07   ` ken
2017-09-22  7:37     ` Alberto Luaces
2017-09-22  7:48       ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-22 20:12         ` Mario Castelán Castro
2017-09-22 22:14           ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-24  2:08             ` Mario Castelán Castro
     [not found]             ` <mailman.1063.1506218941.14750.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2017-09-24  6:47               ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-24 13:38                 ` Mario Castelán Castro
2017-09-24 14:42                   ` Óscar Fuentes [this message]
2017-09-24 14:54                     ` tomas
2017-09-26 18:57                       ` Narendra Joshi
2017-09-24 23:06                     ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-25 21:23                       ` Mario Castelán Castro
2017-09-25 21:49                         ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-26  1:43                           ` Mario Castelán Castro
2017-09-26  2:17                             ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-25 21:11                     ` Mario Castelán Castro
2017-09-25 23:58                       ` Óscar Fuentes
2017-09-26 14:46                         ` Mario Castelán Castro
2017-09-26 23:31                           ` Óscar Fuentes
2017-09-29 20:21                             ` Mario Castelán Castro
2017-09-29 12:43                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-09-29 14:59                             ` dekkzz78
2017-09-29 16:51                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2017-09-29 17:20                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-29 18:27                                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2017-09-29 19:45                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-29 20:06                                       ` Óscar Fuentes
2017-09-29 23:24                                         ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-29 18:03                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-09-24 23:07                   ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-23 10:05           ` Charles A. Roelli
2017-09-23 12:53             ` Óscar Fuentes
2017-09-23 13:12               ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-09-23 17:18                 ` Glenn Morris
2017-09-23 17:34                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-09-23 20:50                     ` Yuri Khan
2017-09-24  2:53                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-09-24  7:13                         ` Philipp Stephani
2017-09-24 18:29                           ` Robert Thorpe
2017-09-29  8:17                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-09-29 20:28                             ` Stefan Monnier
2017-09-29 23:28                               ` Emanuel Berg
2017-10-03  0:52                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2017-10-03  1:04                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-29  7:11                           ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                         ` <mailman.1068.1506237251.14750.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2017-09-24  7:48                           ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-25 21:26                         ` Glenn Morris
2017-09-25 22:02                           ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-25 22:08                           ` Ludwig, Mark
2017-09-26  5:50                             ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-26 13:40                               ` Ludwig, Mark
2017-09-26 17:46                             ` Philipp Stephani
2017-09-26 19:00                               ` Ludwig, Mark
2017-09-29 13:23                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-09-29  9:48                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-09-26 18:44                   ` Narendra Joshi
2017-09-26 18:51                     ` Philipp Stephani
     [not found]           ` <mailman.988.1506161159.14750.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2017-09-24  6:31             ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-22 16:40       ` ken
2017-09-22 19:07         ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-23 20:27     ` Bob Proulx
     [not found]     ` <mailman.1053.1506198486.14750.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2017-09-24  6:38       ` Emanuel Berg
2017-09-24 17:17         ` Maxim Cournoyer
2017-09-24 22:38           ` Emanuel Berg
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2017-09-27 10:51 Richard Melville

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