From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Robert Thorpe Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: Repurpose one key (why only one?) and reserve it for third-party packages Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 05:02:17 +0000 Message-ID: <87v9at6i06.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> References: <663841c0e3da7ae9cdf0@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="545"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: philipk@posteo.net, help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 15 06:03:16 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lBW2W-000AdM-HU for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 06:03:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58616 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lBW2V-0002th-JX for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 00:03:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52188) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lBW2B-0002sA-1k for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 00:02:55 -0500 Original-Received: from outbound-smtp08.blacknight.com ([46.22.139.13]:60617) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lBW28-0006Of-R3 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 00:02:54 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.blacknight.com (pemlinmail06.blacknight.ie [81.17.255.152]) by outbound-smtp08.blacknight.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 144A91C34B1 for ; Mon, 15 Feb 2021 05:02:50 +0000 (GMT) Original-Received: (qmail 29885 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2021 05:02:49 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO rt-inspiron-3480) (rt@robertthorpeconsulting.com@[51.37.90.145]) by 81.17.254.9 with ESMTPSA (AES256-SHA encrypted, authenticated); 15 Feb 2021 05:02:49 -0000 In-Reply-To: <663841c0e3da7ae9cdf0@heytings.org> (message from Gregory Heytings on Sun, 14 Feb 2021 21:37:05 +0000) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=46.22.139.13; envelope-from=rt@robertthorpeconsulting.com; helo=outbound-smtp08.blacknight.com X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:128075 Archived-At: Gregory Heytings writes: >> >> I'm not sure that the number of published packages necessarily means >> that 1. user install more packages over time 2. some fixed proportion of >> these require global bindings. More often than not, packages might just >> provide hooks or implement interfaces like Xref or CAPF, thus avoiding >> their own special keys. >> > > Frankly, I don't understand why it is necessary to argue so much to > explain that a limit of 26 or 52 global bindings is not enough. It's as > if your operating system forced you to have at most 26 or 52 files or > folders in each folder; of course it would be feasible to use such an > operating system, but it would be terribly impractical. I see that, out > of the ~11K commands in Emacs core, there are currently ~450-500 commands > bound to keys in global-map (counting only the C-something, M-something > and C-M-something). I or you may, today, not need more than 26 or 52 > global bindings for external packages, we may perhaps only need 10 or 20, > but this discussion isn't about me or you, or about the current situation, > it's about finding a long-term solution to a problem, with the hope that > in the long term more and more external packages will be useful to a large > audience. It's about making Emacs friendlier for beginners, and also for > third-party library developers by giving them a "home" in Emacs' default > keyboard bindings. I'm not sure I understand your point here. Any single key that's picked will have a similar limitation. For example, let's suppose that M-o is picked. That's my favourite, I know you don't like it. In that case any key can follow it. That gives the entire keyboard, maybe 100 keys. Is that so different to 52? Also, nested prefix keys can be used. For example suppose that Magit uses C-c g as a prefix. It can then be followed by any keyboard character. However, I agree with you that adding things to the users space in the C-c prefix is not ideal. Adding another prefix key for 3rd-parties would be better. Assuming, of-course, that Drew Adam's proposal of a moratorium is off-the-table. BR, Robert Thorpe