From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: about keysee Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2022 06:10:06 +0100 Message-ID: <87v8mduua9.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <7e04bfde-07e1-0320-be04-e43a90279dee@posteo.de> <42668d33-45e1-eb87-0846-2acfdcd3f303@posteo.de> <45f63a9f-8634-42db-d59c-3c3fc0bc3730@posteo.de> <87zgbpr9vx.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2211"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:jIfKOaigZSEYcR9S5blx/tw/OVc= Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 15 14:09:37 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1p5nzU-0000Ge-Ig for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 15 Dec 2022 14:09:36 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5noC-0005Je-Du; Thu, 15 Dec 2022 07:57:56 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5gVh-0007yS-8h for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Dec 2022 00:10:21 -0500 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5gVe-0007Oh-Nx for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Dec 2022 00:10:21 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1p5gVa-0004vs-1N for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Dec 2022 06:10:14 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 15 Dec 2022 07:57:52 -0500 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:141756 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor wrote: >>> If you need to manually load `cl-macs` there's probably >>> a bug somewhere. >> >> You should not _need_ to do it but shouldn't it still work >> _if_ you do it? > > Maybe it will work "here and now". > But if you care about it working for past and/or future > versions of Emacs... [ As maintainers, we worry a lot about > this, because the more people rely on internal details the > harder it is to change them. ] Yes, I understand, what I mean is in general, if you use something, say a function f, you do `C-h f' on that and see that it is defined in some file, say file F, you then look downmost in that file and see (provide 'F), shouldn't it then follow that you can just do (require 'F), use f, and that is (1) correct and (2) enough? Instead of having special rules, like the one for `cl-lib' in this sense, shouldn't it instead be up to F to `require' anything and everything _it_ requires, to provide whatever it is it is `provide'ing? And besides don't you want that anyway? Because if I don't do that with my files, the byte-compiler complains about undefined functions and stuff ... Why is this any different? Do you move things around a lot in the `cl-lib' files, is that the problem? But as long as the files remain and _they_ load the whole library first thing - if needed - it's not a problem, either? Or what am I missing? -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal