From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim X Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: My emacs was upgraded and I am a novice again Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:56:55 +1000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <87tzplq5zs.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> References: <46F2BA57.3060604@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1190529675 15287 80.91.229.12 (23 Sep 2007 06:41:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 06:41:15 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 23 08:41:10 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IZL9R-0004DL-Ba for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 08:41:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IZL9O-0004pS-Tb for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 02:41:06 -0400 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xt-sjc-02!sn-xt-sjc-07!sn-post-sjc-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:4uoJ/5N3x7GELs0EgObNPEf1jOk= Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Original-Lines: 57 Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:152242 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:47751 Archived-At: "Dave Pawson" writes: > On 21/09/2007, Tom Tromey wrote: > >> Most long-time Emacs users I talk to have a similar experience. I >> think this is one of the great joys of Emacs. >> >> On the minus side, discoverability remains a problem. Sometimes I >> wish I'd found those features years earlier. > > That's the problem I'm trying to address. > If the list members could provide the 'clues' I'm more than willing > to collate them, or perhaps we could use a wiki or some other web site > to collect them? > > Ideas for an 'index' please? What form? Its the match of 'idea/usage' > vs package name/variable/mode. Generally once you have the key words, > emacs is sufficiently helpful? > As you will see from my other post, I think this already exists in that most entries in the emacs manual (specifically the detailed node listing) describe what the item does as part of the description associated with that menu item.. Of course, there ar problems here in that we are dealing with a system that is used in many different countries with different interpretations of various terms (even within all the countries that use English, you can find confusing variation in the use of words). This doesn't mean it isn't a good idea to try alternatives that may help overcome this limitation of spoken language. My recommendation would be to put a page up on the emacs wiki. This would allow others, possibly from different backgrounds or for whom english is a second language, to add additional entries, examples or clarification. I find the emacs wiki a great resource and often spend a few hours browsing it and learning new techniques/ideas. Often, this involves using features I was aware of, but in ways I had not considered. The only request I would make is to please include links to the relevant manual entry rather than re-write or re-do what is in the manual. One of the biggest areas of confusion that I see with emacs is all the out of date pages that advise people to do exactly the wrong thing. These pages are seldom as up-to-date as the emacs manual. So, for example, rather than explain how to use auto-revert, just define what is meant by revert in emacs terms and then point to the relevant manual section. regards, Tim -- tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au