From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thien-Thi Nguyen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs, oldsters, newbiness Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2008 21:22:47 +0100 Message-ID: <87tzakbo4o.fsf@ambire.localdomain> References: <251d6b72-b760-411b-8c35-83a7788e2491@u75g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <68deb805-c16f-48ec-96a1-5dd8fd7e5e48@x1g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <56aa1c42-303b-4150-8d96-9159487244e2@40g2000prx.googlegroups.com> <7343b66f-7262-466c-8975-9774dce22d88@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <7bddb878-9f4c-4140-827c-83cd29c96e5f@l77g2000hse.googlegroups.com> <878wse8kdp.fsf_-_@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1226004535 23407 80.91.229.12 (6 Nov 2008 20:48:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 20:48:55 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 06 21:49:57 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KyBnT-0005j3-Hp for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 21:49:43 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34128 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KyBmM-0002qX-Dw for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 15:48:34 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KyBm3-0002qM-Ca for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 15:48:15 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KyBm2-0002qA-Qe for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 15:48:15 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=34390 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KyBm2-0002q7-LA for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 15:48:14 -0500 Original-Received: from host1-73-dynamic.45-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it ([79.45.73.1]:51244 helo=ambire.localdomain) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KyBm2-0000y2-35 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 15:48:14 -0500 Original-Received: from ttn by ambire.localdomain with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1KyBNP-0001kY-On for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 21:22:47 +0100 In-Reply-To: <878wse8kdp.fsf_-_@gmail.com> (Paul R.'s message of "Fri, 24 Oct 2008 10:31:14 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Greylist: delayed 1320 seconds by postgrey-1.27 at monty-python; Thu, 06 Nov 2008 15:48:11 EST X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:59522 Archived-At: () Paul R () Fri, 24 Oct 2008 10:31:14 +0200 A lot GNU/Emacs active developers develop emacs for their own needs of emacs gurus. Those are concentrating all their efforts on what bog them the most. It's like it has become for them a solitary pleasure, or necessity, to hack on emacs. Doing so, they tend to neglect to clean up and facilitate the steep and hard path going from the state of total newbiness to emacs, to the state of being able to appreciate the work being done at the moment. facilitate the hardness -- what does that really mean? to make things more pretty dirty, or to make them more ugly clean? mayhaps those hackers are deserving of pity, newbie wonder absconded, they grate on the gritty, trying to recapture the big awe of the big wall, trying to refracture their jigged maw w/ their rigged saw. too precise now, focused instruments thwart them; original curiosity formless, now lost to the short zen. harden the facility -- when is culture just overgrown moss? does the stone monkey even remember five centuries lost? strike out in one direction to cross monsters and rivers, keeping in tow the untoward human that shivers, every hair just a jump from the thousand league mountains, yet plodding on course, burning oils, flowing fountains. return of the fruitful, swift and unforgotten, is wisdom the hand that clamps down, does not soften? thi