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From: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: if vs. when vs. and: style question
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 08:12:01 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87twx9360u.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: d52ac27a-d085-409a-b9ee-ff7a9201da81@googlegroups.com

Rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> writes:

> On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 8:10:18 AM UTC+5:30, Emanuel Berg wrote:
>> "Pascal J. Bourguignon"  writes:
>> 
>> > But then, why stop with +?
>> >
>> > You could use instead:
>> >
>> >    (funcall (additive-operator (ring integer))
>> > (neutral-element (multiplicative-operator (ring
>> > integer))) 5) ; 6
>> >
>> > or something even more general?
>
> I find Pascal's example brilliant and hilarious.
> In this case though, I slightly err on your (Emanuel) side.
>
> When I see the 1+, I have a stop (like um... er...)
> Is that a number, an expression, a constant, a comment?
>
> Oh Oh.. Functions can start with digits (Yeah this is lisp...)


Indeed, it is clear that the names 1+ and 1- are ill-choosen.
Notably 1-!!!

            (1- x) == (- x 1)


BUT

Those are actually fundamental operators, more fundamental than addition
and substration, both in a theoric way, and in practice with a lot of
processors.

They are the operators named succ(x) and pred(x) in pascal (which C
lacks as independent operators, but have combined with updating with the
pre- and post- complifications of ++x, x++, --x, and x--; C is THE crazy
language).


In axiomatic number/set theory, we only assume a number noted 0, and a
succ(x) operation that let us build a new number from any number x.

so 1 = succ(0) by definition.  (= 1 (1+ 0))

You do not program it the other way around, defining 1+ from x and 1,
you define 1 from 1+ and 0!

And the proof, is that processors usually have an increment and a
decrement operation even while they may lack a general load operation
(working or any immediate word-sized number).

So when you write x:=512; you may actually obtain a "load #511; incr"
instruction sequence, ie. (1+ 511).



So write: 

   (defun succ (x) (1+ x)) 
   (defun pred (x) (1- x)) 

or in elisp:

   (defalias 'succ '1+)
   (defalias 'pred '1-)

and use (succ x) instead of (1+ x) or (+ x 1).


(Remember that the only literal numbers allowed in a program source are
0 and 1; well, it's even better if you allow only 0 and (succ x)).

-- 
__Pascal Bourguignon__                 http://www.informatimago.com/
“The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a
dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to
keep the man from touching the equipment.” -- Carl Bass CEO Autodesk


  reply	other threads:[~2015-03-25  7:12 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 121+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-03-23 22:53 if vs. when vs. and: style question Marcin Borkowski
2015-03-24  0:15 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-24  0:34   ` Drew Adams
2015-03-24  0:22 ` Drew Adams
     [not found] ` <mailman.2648.1427156603.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-24  2:28   ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-24  6:12     ` Rusi
2015-03-25  0:21       ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25  0:20         ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25  2:44           ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25  2:51             ` Rusi
2015-03-25  7:12               ` Pascal J. Bourguignon [this message]
2015-03-25 14:02                 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 14:40                   ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-25 14:52                   ` if vs. when vs. and: style question now Unicode Dan Espen
2015-03-25 15:24                     ` Rusi
2015-03-25 15:46                       ` Dan Espen
2015-03-25 16:02                         ` Rusi
2015-03-25 17:16                           ` Dan Espen
2015-03-28 17:55                           ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 17:46                         ` Rusi
2015-03-25 15:22                   ` if vs. when vs. and: style question Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 15:37                     ` Rusi
2015-03-29  1:17                       ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 15:45                     ` Rusi
2015-03-29  1:03                     ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-29  2:41                       ` Rusi
2015-03-29  3:11                         ` Rusi
2015-03-29 14:05                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-03-29 16:00                           ` Drew Adams
2015-03-30  1:55                             ` Óscar Fuentes
     [not found]                             ` <mailman.2998.1427680540.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30  2:25                               ` Rusi
2015-03-29 18:27                         ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-30  0:09                           ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-30  1:33                             ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-03-30  1:50                               ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-30  9:44                               ` tomas
2015-03-30 11:46                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
     [not found]                                 ` <mailman.3016.1427716011.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30 13:03                                   ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-30 14:18                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-30 15:21                                       ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-03-30 15:31                                         ` Óscar Fuentes
     [not found]                                         ` <mailman.3031.1427729518.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30 17:15                                           ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
     [not found]                                       ` <mailman.3030.1427728904.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-31  6:26                                         ` Reality and Proofs (was if vs. when vs. and: style question) Rusi
     [not found]                               ` <mailman.3010.1427708687.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30 12:59                                 ` if vs. when vs. and: style question Pascal J. Bourguignon
     [not found]                         ` <mailman.2972.1427637975.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30  1:55                           ` Rusi
     [not found]                   ` <mailman.2749.1427294481.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 15:33                     ` Rusi
2015-03-25 15:36                       ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 16:06                         ` Drew Adams
     [not found]                         ` <mailman.2751.1427299594.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 16:19                           ` Rusi
2015-03-25 16:23                             ` Rusi
2015-03-29  1:24                             ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 17:02                           ` Dan Espen
2015-03-25 18:23                             ` Drew Adams
     [not found]                             ` <mailman.2758.1427307846.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 18:52                               ` Dan Espen
2015-03-26  9:47                                 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-03-29 23:06                                 ` Emanuel Berg
     [not found]                                 ` <mailman.2799.1427363259.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 10:24                                   ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 10:28                                     ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 10:47                                       ` Unicode in source (Was Re: if vs. when vs. and: style question) Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                                       ` <mailman.2802.1427366873.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 15:54                                         ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 17:07                                           ` Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                                           ` <mailman.2824.1427389660.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 17:16                                             ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 10:43                                     ` if vs. when vs. and: style question Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-03-26 13:02                                       ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-04-01 22:03                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2015-04-01 22:24                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 19:17                               ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 20:31                                 ` Drew Adams
2015-03-25 22:21                                   ` Richard Wordingham
2015-03-25 23:21                                     ` Drew Adams
2015-03-25 23:52                                       ` Richard Wordingham
     [not found]                                     ` <mailman.2782.1427325697.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26  3:02                                       ` Rusi
2015-03-26 10:01                                         ` Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                                         ` <mailman.2800.1427364117.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 13:00                                           ` Rusi
2015-03-26 13:28                                             ` Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                                             ` <mailman.2809.1427376497.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 15:51                                               ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 16:21                                                 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                                   ` <mailman.2779.1427322080.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-04-01  2:31                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2015-04-01  3:03                                       ` Rusi
2015-04-01 14:29                                         ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-04-01 14:57                                           ` Rusi
     [not found]                                 ` <mailman.2771.1427315503.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26  4:23                                   ` Rusi
2015-03-25 19:20                               ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 11:37                                 ` Alan Schmitt
2015-03-30  1:20                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-30  2:43                                   ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-30  3:12                                     ` Rusi
2015-03-25 17:49                           ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 18:09                             ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                             ` <mailman.2756.1427307016.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 21:27                               ` Rusi
2015-03-25 21:32                                 ` Rusi
2015-03-31 16:49                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-31 17:22                                     ` Rusi
2015-04-01 18:08                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2015-04-01 20:01                                       ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-27  3:54                           ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-27  7:59                             ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-03-27  8:06                               ` tomas
2015-03-27  8:11                                 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-03-27  9:20                                   ` tomas
2015-03-27  9:31                                     ` Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                               ` <mailman.2860.1427443603.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-27 12:41                                 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-27 13:05                                   ` tomas
     [not found]                                   ` <mailman.2875.1427461540.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-27 13:35                                     ` Rusi
2015-03-27 12:34                             ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-27  0:49                   ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-27  7:53                     ` Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                     ` <mailman.2856.1427442800.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-27  8:56                       ` Joost Kremers
2015-03-27 12:19                       ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-27 14:20                     ` Rusi
2015-03-25  2:35         ` Rusi
2015-03-27  0:31           ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-27 21:27             ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-27 22:54               ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-28  1:16                 ` Rusi
2015-03-28 12:47                   ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-24 15:18     ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25  0:44       ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-24  7:21 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
     [not found] ` <mailman.2659.1427181547.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25  0:34   ` Emanuel Berg
     [not found] <mailman.2645.1427151196.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-23 23:19 ` Emanuel Berg

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