From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Philip K." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: Repurpose one key and reserve it for third-party packages Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 17:20:58 +0100 Message-ID: <87tuqia845.fsf@posteo.net> References: <7ef75c33936136eb3a20@heytings.org> <8735y56naf.fsf@posteo.net> <8ed9b43502ae9a36b057@heytings.org> <87tuqk6d9d.fsf@posteo.net> <3966473cc1ab9f104724@heytings.org> <87o8gr1oom.fsf@posteo.net> <87lfbubthl.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31171"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 11 17:23:42 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lAEko-000815-KC for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 17:23:42 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45402 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAEkn-0002DV-Kg for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 11:23:41 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60474) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAEiJ-00013S-LK for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 11:21:07 -0500 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:33292) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAEiE-00056x-I8 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 11:21:07 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D0A716005C for ; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 17:21:00 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1613060460; bh=bcAohvSFETK+QD3AQsqpRldUFYlahpxrUCS90Sy259E=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=SLhAUuzjTcZOdvfgGZyYxlyK3HsHgJdsMOxm6YGZjQHY9wW6ADLpF4ma2cbIBiXxF XY9K0219Yo8+v6Usk5E/1U3FgMHWv68Bqq4zirpkfdE5EEHiymofh8MF6Gc1HP/QbV 65LNrrOm27OJaMfT+aThej7NKhuTKY2ZzkGQ0lZUzyGfgGUnARZ/Q5JP1CeWR6Uqg6 lUH3f6duEDucRhx4SnJgd/d6E2QifGIMclucxwGX9grDC2g+TArHBwO9I9wkoFrrD/ 2BHAqkUEX8IAgQ6XRiWiWJd7CsYCT/NMDmOkxd/JMrJBNRpIY6Z3yOv82lLozMd4ii feqYGqPte4btA== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Dc21R3l85z9rxX; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 17:20:59 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: (Gregory Heytings's message of "Thu, 11 Feb 2021 15:59:01 +0000") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:127816 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gregory Heytings writes: >> the difference is that Emacs is a interactive computing environment >> while GIMP and browsers are programs with extension models. > > I'm not sure I understand the difference, and for most users Emacs is > not an "interactive computing environment", it's a text editor, like > Atom, Visual Studio, or Vim. Just because it appears to be something at first glance, doesn't mean it should behave/limit itself to this misapprehension. >> All in all, I don't have a problem with Emacs being able to support >> it, but as I've shown with the example in my last message, it >> doesn't need to be done automatically, nor does it require a >> separate key. >> > > The problem of what you propose is that, even if it were possible > (AFAIU it isn't, given Emacs' key binding conventions), it would be a > very limited solution: there are only 26 keys reserved for users. > Okay, 52, if you count capital letters. Wait, if a key were designated, you would have the same issue? But even then, you can bind a key to a sub-map, you can rebind exiting keys if a package improves on an existing key and you could suggest more than one key. >> It's ultimately up to the user what he or she wants to do, and >> clever behind-your-back customization seems more harmful and >> confusing than the current state of affairs. > > It's what most users expect. apt install elpa-magit, C-x g, and > voil=C3=A0: Magit works.=20 How do you come to this conclusion? And why does it matter if it is a "wrong" expectation? > BTW, Emacs already does "behind-your-back" customizations, and doesn't > ask you any questions for them. It provides sensible defaults, which > work in most cases, and which you can change if need be. I don't get your point here. Are you saying "default Emacs" is a "behind-your-back customization"? =2D-=20 Philip K. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGzBAEBCAAdFiEEbW+YL3e0aNnYosjIGB9bla4wszYFAmAlWWoACgkQGB9bla4w szaTGQv9FDH6/7nVLjOywADAfAo9imlZQrpSxjVmt0lSsZQdDowDU2s7S3185uBd KmgZbJKA3EdU9MbzloOLsVMQN2cCSjcpuSt+5ewHuAiHueKL+1pdQaU6hIBU0ydC E4U3s8ie122X9jfKNnVobxII/3L4vOevXVaxlltPC/wXJxYeBYRqJJWPCIlIkz3b 9t39Pdzt4h+bcDf12Q39z5pAjGFmADhDqga4MG7H4D24czJcPPruZLXSOa09T4B6 r9tscUNypz7PxCQd++/3g124D3+pqZVq/2Y1jTLgqRTK31bSaGvSsW8KK/5+ES3Y 6+rRHG1PvxQs+/fX2x4UhnjR5SKNoqsTXYk8rglak2jwwHIHS29Qya9a0e70s0W4 EgtDMNUWHpQRQy6K57umspP6dKDBBAlZL4qk8kGyYvepjKiX2iCYW3X91+IoVdAM qpweKdKpz8A44f1HVc03FtKXvFEoeWm1HnghD0yJVua2TStNK5TftNZRRxpSd+cx w+8jS3Mg =jhFI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--