From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jambunathan K Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: RFC: Flavors - naming significant sets of customizations Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:22:09 +0530 Message-ID: <87siuetp12.fsf@gmail.com> References: <9fc6b1ae-7cbd-4a17-a9a0-f4af42969312@googlegroups.com> <5592550c-72f1-4e9b-93db-dc7f95742d27@googlegroups.com> <874n6vx2aq.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> <87eh5yitq2.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1385790843 17547 80.91.229.3 (30 Nov 2013 05:54:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 05:54:03 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 30 06:54:09 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VmdVI-0004B7-UY for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2013 06:54:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50957 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VmdVI-0002Z6-2z for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2013 00:54:08 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57793) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VmdV3-0002Xg-Ik for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2013 00:53:58 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VmdUy-000684-4F for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2013 00:53:53 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pb0-x231.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c01::231]:63190) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VmdUx-000680-Sh for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2013 00:53:48 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pb0-f49.google.com with SMTP id jt11so15552039pbb.22 for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 21:53:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent :mime-version:content-type; bh=tz5xA6wSTtBFB6Ni0vf0mbF3c6bAqqJErA5ckEJrF4s=; b=wI3IgHbleEgN7GcB0RCrdxqWwZW3YHZ2SO5sZQYsADb2j+N9XCTSjEyCgjTYRmPj1y YLrmGgGtwH8bf9tuhKE5UzmNjjRbO+k6LCNqLQOQ4ogkVy3Tmr/oDdCOJ7BC0V1eYrKn uTd6LtVEE+kJ5cnNXemb8arhZuaqbpVH5Di3UMyDqpfyt9b/ODSqidSXX42qVaXeP0wp GcMXYsHtRa+lpZiatCpmAZonoxLurz9WGEJV3rUOd8LVICAZydTMCoQKAqzLmL1V1A/G lPsG2nHa8Kvz2m7bMbHNFQ8MGjaqzY14RNvAuqCU4R32JXkOG/37iJSP1Pp44zZKsGT2 1ujg== X-Received: by 10.66.231.72 with SMTP id te8mr45350104pac.11.1385790826797; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 21:53:46 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from debian-6.05 ([115.242.142.29]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id gg10sm106292893pbc.46.2013.11.29.21.53.44 for (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 29 Nov 2013 21:53:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87eh5yitq2.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> (Emanuel Berg's message of "Sat, 30 Nov 2013 02:05:48 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c01::231 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:94739 Archived-At: Emanuel Berg writes: > So what are you saying, someone would perform that deep > surgery (to get a non-hack cua), and this would be an > Emacs "suite"? Let me give you some historical perspective. Story of Orgmode =============== I will give you an example of Org-mode. It started out as a simple library - outline-magic.el. The author - Carsten Dominik - was happy with outline.el but unhappy with the default keybindings. He wrote outline-magic.el and instead of keeping it in his hard disk or putting on github he kept improving it and evolving it. Orgmode became a monster. Orgmode became useful but since it was an evolved software - (i.e, a war veteran, having memory of what works or what didn't, what is needed and what not) - it had it's limitations. It was like my Grandma's house having memories of her times, her children't times and her grandchildren's times. So, Nicolas Goaziou comes in and builds upon existing knowledge and experiences, canonicalizes the syntax and makes the exporters robust. Now this work is unlike what Carsten or earlier people did. It is an upfront design or with little or minor deviations from start to finish. So, the original Orgmode which was started out as an evening walk turned in to a pleasant jog and occasionally became a fartlek (with a mix of intensive workouts interspersed with plain walk) The later effort is like a competititve marathon - intensive in both spatial and temporal sense. The Software Engineering Books call this Iterative Development and Waterfall models. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Story of Emacswiki (as told by Jambunathan) =========================================== Unlike Orgmode, the Emacswiki effort is like a pleasant long walk from southern pole to the northern pole. No purpose. It is a waterfall, nevertheless. "Community Effort" and "No Control" was right there when it started and continues to this day (even after a decay). The waterfall here is not a Niagara but a Bridal Veil. ---------------------------------------------------------------- > That doesn't really synch with those examples > Jambunathan K provided. Those actually sound exactly > like the Linux distros: repackage the same thing (over > and over again) based on the different behaviour of the > (segmented) user base. If one cannot bring in intensity one can atleast bring in patience and perseverance. One no valuable than the other. People who have a sense of history - those who have seen a oak tree - in a frivolous seed - add water and remove weeds and more importantly refrain from uprooting the seed out of the soil. So, try it out or just note it in diary. Someone who proposes may be weak heart and may never start out his journey if he finds no encouragement. ----------------------------------------------------------------