Guidance with handling email from emacs

Guidance with handling email from emacs

[Bruno Victal]

Hi,

I'm attempting to move from Thunderbird to Emacs for handling my email
and would like some guidance with the task.
After reading the manual for Message Mode and the emacs-wiki I'm still
left with some lingering questions on how to replicate some of the
tasks and behaviors that I'm accustomed to with Thunderbird. Specifically,

* How to save drafts to an IMAP folder?
  I'm aware of `message-auto-save-directory' but this only saves
  messages to a local directory.

* Place a copy of the sent message in the IMAP Sent folder?
  I'm aware of the `mail-self-blind' variable that BCCs the mail to
  myself but I'm asking for this behavior in specific.

* Is there the equivalent of “Paste with quotation”?
  i.e. Paste contents of clipboard but with one level of quotation,
  regardless of where I copied the text from.

* How can I replicate the citation message style used in Thunderbird?
  i.e. “On 2023-09-18 07:57, _NAME_ wrote:”

* Is there a “right” way for easily handling multiple SMTP accounts (or
  identities as Thunderbird calls them)?
  The info from the emacs-wiki and the emacs manual seems a bit
  inconsistent or confusing in this matter.

* How can I omit the comment that is present in the `In-Reply-To'
  header? (as seen by BCC'ing the message to myself)
  --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
  In-Reply-To: <123456789@example.com>
  	(name's message of "Thu, 1 Jan 1970 07:00:00 -0700")
  --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

* ^Related to the above: Can I paste something and have it automatically
  enclose with the “…cut here…” lines instead of having to mark the
  region and do `C-c M-m'?

* Is it OK to manually put a `In-Reply-To' header in the message headers
  or will this get overwritten by emacs when sending with `C-c C-c'?

* Can I override the host-name that is sent in the headers? I see:
  --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
  Received: from my-host-name (unknown [192.0.2.1])
  	  (Authenticated sender: foo@example.com)
  	  by mail.example.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0000000000;
	  Thu, 1 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0200 (CEST)
  --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
  Where my-host-name is the contents from /etc/hostname.


On receiving email, which emacs client would best mirror Thunderbird's
workflow? Or putting it in another way, what client fits best with an
IMAP oriented flow and allows displaying & organizing mail in IMAP
directories and can properly thread the discussions?


-- 
Thanks,
Bruno.

Re: Guidance with handling email from emacs

[Eshel Yaron]

Hi Bruno,

I use Gnus with multiple accounts, I don't have answers to all of your
questions, but I do for some of them:

Bruno Victal <mirai@makinata.eu> writes:

> * Place a copy of the sent message in the IMAP Sent folder?
>   I'm aware of the `mail-self-blind' variable that BCCs the mail to
>   myself but I'm asking for this behavior in specific.

I'm not sure how to configure this behavior, but I think for me this
just works.  Did you give it a try?

> * Is there the equivalent of “Paste with quotation”?
>   i.e. Paste contents of clipboard but with one level of quotation,
>   regardless of where I copied the text from.

I just yank the text I want to quote, and then type C-x r t > SPC RET.
I'm not sure if there's another bespoke way to do that.

> * How can I replicate the citation message style used in Thunderbird?
>   i.e. “On 2023-09-18 07:57, _NAME_ wrote:”

Try setting `message-citation-line-function` to
`message-insert-formatted-citation-line` and customize
`message-citation-line-format`.

> * Is there a “right” way for easily handling multiple SMTP accounts (or
>   identities as Thunderbird calls them)?

Yes, there are a couple of ways to achieve this, none of them are really
great IMO.  But the best way is to customize `message-server-alist`.
You can take a look at my email config here:
http://git.eshelyaron.com/gitweb/?p=dotfiles.git;a=blob;f=.emacs.d/lisp/esy-comm.el;hb=HEAD

> * ^Related to the above: Can I paste something and have it automatically
>   enclose with the “…cut here…” lines instead of having to mark the
>   region and do `C-c M-m'?

I just type C-c M-m after pasting something.  Note that you don't need
to manually select the region, Emacs puts the mark before the inserted
text automatically.

> * Can I override the host-name that is sent in the headers? I see:
>   --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>   Received: from my-host-name (unknown [192.0.2.1])
>         (Authenticated sender: foo@example.com)
>         by mail.example.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0000000000;
>         Thu, 1 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0200 (CEST)
>   --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>   Where my-host-name is the contents from /etc/hostname.

Yes, I think customizing `mail-host-address` or `message-user-fqdn`
should do the trick.


Regards,

Eshel

Re: Guidance with handling email from emacs

[Robert Pluim]

>>>>> On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 09:14:22 +0200, Eshel Yaron <me@eshelyaron.com> said:

    Eshel> Bruno Victal <mirai@makinata.eu> writes:

    >> * Place a copy of the sent message in the IMAP Sent folder?
    >> I'm aware of the `mail-self-blind' variable that BCCs the mail to
    >> myself but I'm asking for this behavior in specific.

You can in theory set `gnus-message-archive-group' to point at an IMAP
folder like "nnimap+myimapserver:Sent", but Iʼve never tried it (see
also `gnus-gcc-mark-as-read').

    Eshel> I'm not sure how to configure this behavior, but I think for me this
    Eshel> just works.  Did you give it a try?

gmail does it for you automatically, that I know.

    >> * Is there the equivalent of “Paste with quotation”?
    >> i.e. Paste contents of clipboard but with one level of quotation,
    >> regardless of where I copied the text from.

    Eshel> I just yank the text I want to quote, and then type C-x r t > SPC RET.
    Eshel> I'm not sure if there's another bespoke way to do that.

Thereʼs `message-yank-buffer', but see below.

    >> * How can I replicate the citation message style used in Thunderbird?
    >> i.e. “On 2023-09-18 07:57, _NAME_ wrote:”

    Eshel> Try setting `message-citation-line-function` to
    Eshel> `message-insert-formatted-citation-line` and customize
    Eshel> `message-citation-line-format`.

Or take a look at the "supercite" package (I used it for this message).

    >> * Is there a “right” way for easily handling multiple SMTP accounts (or
    >> identities as Thunderbird calls them)?

    Eshel> Yes, there are a couple of ways to achieve this, none of them are really
    Eshel> great IMO.  But the best way is to customize `message-server-alist`.
    Eshel> You can take a look at my email config here:
    Eshel> http://git.eshelyaron.com/gitweb/?p=dotfiles.git;a=blob;f=.emacs.d/lisp/esy-comm.el;hb=HEAD

Iʼve used `gnus-posting-styles' for this in the past. something like

(setq gnus-posting-styles
      '(
        ("^nnimap\\+gmail"
         (address "myusername@gmail.com")
         ("X-Message-SMTP-Method" "smtp mail.gmail.com smtps myusername"))
        ("^nnimap\\+yahoo"
         (address "myusername@yahoo.com")
         ("X-Message-SMTP-Method" "smtp mail.yahoo.com smtps myusername"))))

(this also sets "From" for you based on the group youʼre in)

    >> * ^Related to the above: Can I paste something and have it automatically
    >> enclose with the “…cut here…” lines instead of having to mark the
    >> region and do `C-c M-m'?

Yes. See `yank-transform-functions', which you could also use to do
the quoting you talked about earlier. Of course this is Emacs, so you
can always define your own functions to do different kinds of yanking
and bind them to keys of your choosing.

Robert
-- 

Re: Guidance with handling email from emacs

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes:

>>>>>> On Thu, 21 Sep 2023 09:14:22 +0200, Eshel Yaron <me@eshelyaron.com> said:
>
>     Eshel> Bruno Victal <mirai@makinata.eu> writes:
>
>     >> * Place a copy of the sent message in the IMAP Sent folder?
>     >> I'm aware of the `mail-self-blind' variable that BCCs the mail to
>     >> myself but I'm asking for this behavior in specific.
>
> You can in theory set `gnus-message-archive-group' to point at an IMAP
> folder like "nnimap+myimapserver:Sent", but Iʼve never tried it (see
> also `gnus-gcc-mark-as-read').

This works for me. You can set it in your posting styles, or I do it in
the select method definition. That means you have to start composing new
messages using a prefix argument on the group whose settings you want to
pick up, but that's never seemed like too much of a burden to me. There
are also several packages managing higher-level account settings.

Re: Guidance with handling email from emacs

[Björn Bidar]

Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com> writes:

>     >> * Is there a “right” way for easily handling multiple SMTP accounts (or
>     >> identities as Thunderbird calls them)?
>
>     Eshel> Yes, there are a couple of ways to achieve this, none of them are really
>     Eshel> great IMO.  But the best way is to customize `message-server-alist`.
>     Eshel> You can take a look at my email config here:
>     Eshel> http://git.eshelyaron.com/gitweb/?p=dotfiles.git;a=blob;f=.emacs.d/lisp/esy-comm.el;hb=HEAD
>
> Iʼve used `gnus-posting-styles' for this in the past. something like
>
> (setq gnus-posting-styles
>       '(
>         ("^nnimap\\+gmail"
>          (address "myusername@gmail.com")
>          ("X-Message-SMTP-Method" "smtp mail.gmail.com smtps myusername"))
>         ("^nnimap\\+yahoo"
>          (address "myusername@yahoo.com")
>          ("X-Message-SMTP-Method" "smtp mail.yahoo.com smtps myusername"))))

Another option is to use gnus-alias. You can define `gnus-alias-identity-rules` to use a
different identity based on the rules e.g.

(setq gnus-alias-identity-rules
      '(("Example-Rule-name"
         ;; If the email was send To: an address from example.com
         ;; use the alias called user@example.com
         ("to" ".+@.*example.com" previous)
         "user@example.com")))

This way you can define an alias and set settings such as the smtp method:

(setq gnus-alias-identity-alist
      '(("user@example.com" ;; Alias
         "" ;; Refers-To:
         "Example User <user@example.com>" ;; To:
         "Example Org" ;; Organization
         ;; Set Gcc so mails are send in the Send folder
         ;; on the imap server example.com
         (("Gcc" . "nnimap+example.com:Sent")
          ;; Using X-Message-SMTP-Method we can tell
          ;; Emacs wich smtp server to use, doesn't depend on
          ;; gnus-alias 
          ("X-Message-SMTP-Method" .
           "smtp smtp.example.com 25 user@example.com")) ;; headers
         "" ;; Body Text
         "") ;; Signature

Re: Guidance with handling email from emacs

[Michel Verdier]

Le 26 septembre 2023 Björn Bidar a écrit :

> This way you can define an alias and set settings such as the smtp method:

I use message-alternative-emails to use aliases in response.
I use gnus-posting-styles to setup mails for some groups.
I can then change From manually if needed (easy with TAB). And I set
X-Message-SMTP-Method only on sending mail (with smtpmail) so it takes
care of final From.

Re: Guidance with handling email from emacs

[James Thomas]

Bruno Victal wrote:

> * Is it OK to manually put a `In-Reply-To' header in the message headers
>   or will this get overwritten by emacs when sending with `C-c C-c'?

Then you'll probably get two headers. To edit the existing field,
customize `message-hidden-headers'.

--

Re: Guidance with handling email from emacs

[James Thomas]

James Thomas wrote:

> Bruno Victal wrote:
>
>> * Is it OK to manually put a `In-Reply-To' header in the message headers
>>   or will this get overwritten by emacs when sending with `C-c C-c'?
>
> Then you'll probably get two headers. To edit the existing field,
> customize `message-hidden-headers'.

Or, of course, whenever needed you could manually widen the buffer (C-x
n w) and go to the top to edit it.

--