From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim X Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: basic question: going back to dired Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:16:53 +1000 Organization: Rapt Technologies Message-ID: <87r69k29d6.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> References: <4884DC7F.6060406@gmail.com> <819feff4-76e3-4bf8-9ece-7b47f099efc2@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <87mykaw8sb.fsf@nonospaz.fatphil.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216810117 7254 80.91.229.12 (23 Jul 2008 10:48:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 10:48:37 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 23 12:49:26 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KLbuO-0003Q7-62 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 12:49:24 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55016 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KLbtU-0007AY-Py for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2008 06:48:28 -0400 Original-Path: news.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!flpi089.ffdc.sbc.com!prodigy.net!news.astraweb.com!border2.newsrouter.astraweb.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:5RYDD7uhbjdIdwmZw/tIP3Op9Sc= Original-Lines: 51 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 1430aba9.news.astraweb.com Original-X-Trace: DXC=2eSOIdZ6:C]LZ1S List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:55845 Archived-At: "Juanma Barranquero" writes: > > Of course there are at least two reasons, other than history, to stick > with the statu quo: lack of resources, and existing users' resistance. > :) I would suggest a third is that as far as I know, there have been no suggestions for different terms which actually improve the situation. At best, they make it no worse, but I've seen none that would substantially improve the situation (not that I persoanlly believe it needs improvement - but if you accept the premise that many find the current terminology difficult, which I think is debatable, what terminology is going to improve the situation and not make things worse or at best, make no real difference apart from createing a lot of work?). Change for the sake of change is a waste of resources. If the terminology is going to be changed to something, it needs to be something that adds real value and which isn't just a 'dumbing down' to try and increase popularity. for example, I don't think workspace is any real improvement over buffer. What would you call all those buffers that users never actually see? Are they workspaces? However, my biggest concern would be that those new to emacs and trying to learn how to extend it and customise it are likely not to realise that using a temporary buffer to do some manipulation/processing of data in the background is one of the more efficient approaches in emacs. For me at any rate, the concept of a workspace implies some place where I interactively manipulate data. rightly or wrongly, for me, a workspace is where I do work and not necessarily where some elisp may do some work. A recent example of this is the thread where someone was asking how to write a regexp that would manipulate a multi-line chunk of text with a heading of Body:. for me, the most efficient and simplist way to do this wold be to just put the data in a buffer, possibly narrow it to only include the bit I was interested in and then process it. A lot simpler than trying to pull it out with a regexp and then manipulate it as a large string. the other issue here is the frequency of people who are willing to post and criticise the terminology as being out of date or misleading or just inadequate, but who are not prepared to actually do anything about it. Its easy to rite criticism - actually making things change takes effort and dedication. If your not prepared to do the work, then I think people should just be quiet. If you are prepared to do the work, then just get on with it. If your right, your work will be appreciated and you may actually improve things. tim -- tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au