moving around multiple buffers

moving around multiple buffers

[Tamas K Papp]

Hi,

I have seen screenshots of Emacs running with many buffers.  For
example, having Emacs on the whole screen and splitting the buffers
like this:

A|B
-+-
C|D

I know how to do the splitting, but I am curious about what people use
to move around.  Using C-x o (other-window) is a pain with many
windows, same applies to selecting buffers by name (at least for me),
and I want to avoid using the mouse for this.  I am thinking of
something like "move to buffer B, regardless of what is there".

I am interested in how other people handle these setups.  .emacs
snippets are welcome, too.  Also, feel free to tell me if I am
trying to do something silly that does not mesh well with Emacs.

Thanks,

Tamas

Re: moving around multiple buffers

[Joost Kremers]

Tamas K Papp wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have seen screenshots of Emacs running with many buffers.  For
> example, having Emacs on the whole screen and splitting the buffers
> like this:
>
> A|B
> -+-
> C|D
>
> I know how to do the splitting, but I am curious about what people use
> to move around.

check out windmove.el (which comes with emacs). essentially:

(windmove-default-keybindings)

in ~/.emacs and you can switch windows with shift+<arrow_key>. you can also
choose another modifier key. windmove.el is fully documented.

HTH


-- 
Joost Kremers                                      joostkremers@yahoo.com
Selbst in die Unterwelt dringt durch Spalten Licht
EN:SiS(9)

Re: moving around multiple buffers

[Lennart Borgman]

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Joost Kremers<joostkremers@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Tamas K Papp wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have seen screenshots of Emacs running with many buffers.  For
>> example, having Emacs on the whole screen and splitting the buffers
>> like this:
>>
>> A|B
>> -+-
>> C|D
>>
>> I know how to do the splitting, but I am curious about what people use
>> to move around.
>
> check out windmove.el (which comes with emacs). essentially:
>
> (windmove-default-keybindings)
>
> in ~/.emacs and you can switch windows with shift+<arrow_key>. you can also
> choose another modifier key. windmove.el is fully documented.


Since most modern computer GUI:s use shift+<arrow_key> to select text
it seems best to me to not use that for windmove. (They are the
default still in windmove, but that is because Emacs struggles with
backward compatibility. A struggle so hard that it can perhaps kill
Emacs.)

To avoid them you can just use for example

   (windmove-default-keybindings 'meta)

With this you move with meta+<arrow_key>.

Re: moving around multiple buffers

[Joost Kremers]

Lennart Borgman wrote:
> [...] because Emacs struggles with
> backward compatibility. A struggle so hard that it can perhaps kill
> Emacs.)

then the next version of emacs should just make cua mode the default. us
die-hards can always put something in our .emacs to disable it.


-- 
Joost Kremers                                      joostkremers@yahoo.com
Selbst in die Unterwelt dringt durch Spalten Licht
EN:SiS(9)

Re: moving around multiple buffers

[Tamas K Papp]

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:10:50 +0000, Joost Kremers wrote:

> Lennart Borgman wrote:
>> [...] because Emacs struggles with
>> backward compatibility. A struggle so hard that it can perhaps kill
>> Emacs.)
> 
> then the next version of emacs should just make cua mode the default. us
> die-hards can always put something in our .emacs to disable it.

Joost, thanks for the hint.  It works perfectly.

I am using it with Shift, feels more natural.  I don't mind if Emacs
doesn't conform to the "usual" GUI keybindings, in fact, I try to
remap keys in other applications to make them more Emacs-like when it
matters.  But having found org-mode recently, I rarely handle text
outside my cozy Emacs window.

Best,

Tamas

Re: moving around multiple buffers

[Joost Kremers]

Tamas K Papp wrote:
> I am using it with Shift, feels more natural.  I don't mind if Emacs
> doesn't conform to the "usual" GUI keybindings, in fact, I try to
> remap keys in other applications to make them more Emacs-like when it
> matters.  But having found org-mode recently, I rarely handle text
> outside my cozy Emacs window.

yes, i'm also a recent org-mode convert. and unfortunately, shift-(left|right)
are used by org-mode, so that window switching doesn't work in org-mode buffers
if you use shift as modifier. :-(


-- 
Joost Kremers                                      joostkremers@yahoo.com
Selbst in die Unterwelt dringt durch Spalten Licht
EN:SiS(9)

Re: moving around multiple buffers

[Stefan Kamphausen]

Hi,

Joost Kremers <joostkremers@yahoo.com> writes:

> yes, i'm also a recent org-mode convert. and unfortunately,
> shift-(left|right) are used by org-mode, so that window switching
> doesn't work in org-mode buffers if you use shift as modifier. :-(

just to add to the use cases I use shift-(left,right.up.down) for
navigation in (my own) mtorus.  

But the fine people at org-mode are well aware of that problem and offer
a way out.  Take a look at the variable org-replace-disputed-keys :-)

Cheers,
Stefan
-- 
Stefan Kamphausen --- http://www.skamphausen.de
a blessed +42 regexp of confusion (weapon in hand)
You hit. The format string crumbles and turns to dust.

Re: moving around multiple buffers

[Joost Kremers]

Stefan Kamphausen wrote:
> But the fine people at org-mode are well aware of that problem and offer
> a way out.  Take a look at the variable org-replace-disputed-keys :-)

yeah, like they say, the alternative bindings they suggest are more difficult to
remember... i've decided to use control-<cursor_key> to switch windows. 


-- 
Joost Kremers                                      joostkremers@yahoo.com
Selbst in die Unterwelt dringt durch Spalten Licht
EN:SiS(9)

Re: moving around multiple buffers

[Farhan Ahmed]

> On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:10:50 +0000, Joost Kremers wrote:
>
>> Lennart Borgman wrote:
>>> [...] because Emacs struggles with
>>> backward compatibility. A struggle so hard that it can perhaps kill
>>> Emacs.)
>>
>> then the next version of emacs should just make cua mode the default. us
>> die-hards can always put something in our .emacs to disable it.
>
> Joost, thanks for the hint.  It works perfectly.
>
> I am using it with Shift, feels more natural.  I don't mind if Emacs
> doesn't conform to the "usual" GUI keybindings, in fact, I try to
> remap keys in other applications to make them more Emacs-like when it
> matters.  But having found org-mode recently, I rarely handle text
> outside my cozy Emacs window.
>
> Best,
>
> Tamas
>
>

FWIW, I've mapped shift+TAB to 'next buffer and C+shift+TAB to 'previous
buffer and now I only use one window to edit code. Takes a little getting
used to, but it works.

Re: moving around multiple buffers

[Xah Lee]

On Aug 20, 9:08 am, "Farhan Ahmed" <far...@alienfluid.com> wrote:
>
> FWIW, I've mapped shift+TAB to 'next buffer and C+shift+TAB to 'previous
> buffer and now I only use one window to edit code. Takes a little getting
> used to, but it works.

using Tab is probably worst, because every mode vie for that key.

in just about all modes, tab does indentation.

ysnippet also uses tabs.

org mode uses tabs.

in minibuffer and elsewhere, it's also used for completion.

not recommended to pile on such a key. Also, i noticed, tab key is not
actually a good key. Need to take care of your pinkies.

  Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

Re: moving around multiple buffers

[Stefan Kamphausen]

Hi,

Xah Lee <xa...@gmail.com> writes:

> On Aug 20, 9:08 am, "Farhan Ahmed" <far...@alienfluid.com> wrote:
>>
>> FWIW, I've mapped shift+TAB to 'next buffer and C+shift+TAB to 'previous
>> buffer and now I only use one window to edit code. Takes a little getting
>> used to, but it works.
>
> using Tab is probably worst, because every mode vie for that key.
>

[...]

I've been using Ctrl-TAB for (lambda () (interactive (other-window 1)))
for years and I rarely clash with modes.  Similar I've been using
Shift-TAB for comint-dynamic-complete for years without many clashes.
Maybe the occasional incompatibility here and there (mainly org) but I'm
happy with that.

Whenever I need to work with one of those
shift-movement-selects-software wannabes I feel slightly disgusted.  

>
> not recommended to pile on such a key.

As for recommendations... Just for the record: I rebind C-v and C-b to
mean someting like C-x and C-c respectively (global and mode-local
bindings) but for my personal use.  For years.  No problems with almost
all the modes (and I use lots of different major modes).

> Also, i noticed, tab key is not actually a good key.

Now, what may a "good key" be?  Easily reachable? Big? 

> Need to take care of your pinkies.

No problems here after some 15 years of Emacs/XEmacs usage.


So, Ahmed, just stick with your bindings and be happy with it.  :-)


Cheers,
Stefan
-- 
Stefan Kamphausen --- http://www.skamphausen.de
a blessed +42 regexp of confusion (weapon in hand)
You hit. The format string crumbles and turns to dust.

Re: moving around multiple buffers

[Xah Lee]

On Aug 20, 1:58 am, Tamas K Papp <tkp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have seen screenshots of Emacs running with many buffers.  For
> example, having Emacs on the whole screen and splitting the buffers
> like this:
>
> A|B
> -+-
> C|D
>
> I know how to do the splitting, but I am curious about what people use
> to move around.  Using C-x o (other-window) is a pain with many
> windows, same applies to selecting buffers by name (at least for me),
> and I want to avoid using the mouse for this.  I am thinking of
> something like "move to buffer B, regardless of what is there".
>
> I am interested in how other people handle these setups.  .emacs
> snippets are welcome, too.  Also, feel free to tell me if I am
> trying to do something silly that does not mesh well with Emacs.

I reassign it so the key is right on the home row and using thumb
instead of pinky.

after a year or two, this eventually became a system of keybinding.
http://code.google.com/p/ergoemacs/

then, later i added a shifted version to go into the other direction.

typically, this works well for 2 or 3 split panes. But for 4 or more,
mouse is probably best.
I almost don't use more than 2 split planes. If needed, i open another
window (emacs frame), then there's another easy shortcut to cycle
among windows.

you might as well define another easy key to easily split and unsplit
the panes.

Here's snippet of code, assuming you use dvorak keyboard:

(global-set-key (kbd "M-o") 'move-cursor-next-pane)
(global-set-key (kbd "M-O") 'move-cursor-previous-pane)

(global-set-key (kbd "M-2") 'split-window-vertically)
(global-set-key (kbd "M-@") 'split-window-horizontally)

(global-set-key (kbd "M-1") 'delete-other-windows)
(global-set-key (kbd "M-!") 'delete-window)


  Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

☄

Re: moving around multiple buffers

[Torben Knudsen]

Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com> writes:

> On Aug 20, 1:58 am, Tamas K Papp <tkp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have seen screenshots of Emacs running with many buffers.  For
>> example, having Emacs on the whole screen and splitting the buffers
>> like this:
>>
>> A|B
>> -+-
>> C|D
>>
>> I know how to do the splitting, but I am curious about what people use
>> to move around.  Using C-x o (other-window) is a pain with many
>> windows, same applies to selecting buffers by name (at least for me),
>> and I want to avoid using the mouse for this.  I am thinking of
>> something like "move to buffer B, regardless of what is there".
>>
>> I am interested in how other people handle these setups.  .emacs
>> snippets are welcome, too.  Also, feel free to tell me if I am
>> trying to do something silly that does not mesh well with Emacs.
>
> I reassign it so the key is right on the home row and using thumb
> instead of pinky.
>
> after a year or two, this eventually became a system of keybinding.
> http://code.google.com/p/ergoemacs/
>
> then, later i added a shifted version to go into the other direction.
>
> typically, this works well for 2 or 3 split panes. But for 4 or more,
> mouse is probably best.
> I almost don't use more than 2 split planes. If needed, i open another
> window (emacs frame), then there's another easy shortcut to cycle
> among windows.
>
> you might as well define another easy key to easily split and unsplit
> the panes.
>
> Here's snippet of code, assuming you use dvorak keyboard:
>
> (global-set-key (kbd "M-o") 'move-cursor-next-pane)
> (global-set-key (kbd "M-O") 'move-cursor-previous-pane)
>
> (global-set-key (kbd "M-2") 'split-window-vertically)
> (global-set-key (kbd "M-@") 'split-window-horizontally)
>
> (global-set-key (kbd "M-1") 'delete-other-windows)
> (global-set-key (kbd "M-!") 'delete-window)
>
>
>   Xah
> ∑ http://xahlee.org/
>
> ☄

I use something similar.  My idea is to stay close to original emacs
bindings but to avoid to many key strokes.

;;; Window splitting
(global-set-key (kbd "M-3") 'split-window-horizontally) ; was digit-argument
(global-set-key (kbd "M-2") 'split-window-vertically) ; was digit-argument
(global-set-key (kbd "M-1") 'delete-other-windows) ; was digit-argument
(global-set-key (kbd "M-0") 'delete-window) ; was digit-argument
(global-set-key (kbd "M-o") 'other-window) ; was prefix
;; Remove locale key binding of M-o in dired
(add-hook 'dired-mode-hook 'my-dired-mode-hook)
(defun my-dired-mode-hook ()
  (define-key dired-mode-map (kbd "M-o") nil)) ; was dired-omit-mode
 
-- 
Associate Prof. Ph.D Torben Knudsen	Mobile	: (+45) 2787 9826
Section of Automation and Control,	Direct	: 6 8694
Department of Electronic Systems,	Email	: tk@es.aau.dk   
Aalborg University 
Fredrik Bajersvej 7 
DK-9220 Aalborg Ø
Denmark 

Re: moving around multiple buffers

[Xah Lee]

On Aug 20, 10:50 pm, Torben Knudsen <t...@es.aau.dk> wrote:
> Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com> writes:
> > On Aug 20, 1:58 am, Tamas K Papp <tkp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hi,
>
> >> I have seen screenshots of Emacs running with many buffers.  For
> >> example, having Emacs on the whole screen and splitting the buffers
> >> like this:
>
> >> A|B
> >> -+-
> >> C|D
>
> >> I know how to do the splitting, but I am curious about what people use
> >> to move around.  Using C-x o (other-window) is a pain with many
> >> windows, same applies to selecting buffers by name (at least for me),
> >> and I want to avoid using the mouse for this.  I am thinking of
> >> something like "move to buffer B, regardless of what is there".
>
> >> I am interested in how other people handle these setups.  .emacs
> >> snippets are welcome, too.  Also, feel free to tell me if I am
> >> trying to do something silly that does not mesh well with Emacs.
>
> > I reassign it so the key is right on the home row and using thumb
> > instead of pinky.
>
> > after a year or two, this eventually became a system of keybinding.
> >http://code.google.com/p/ergoemacs/
>
> > then, later i added a shifted version to go into the other direction.
>
> > typically, this works well for 2 or 3 split panes. But for 4 or more,
> > mouse is probably best.
> > I almost don't use more than 2 split planes. If needed, i open another
> > window (emacs frame), then there's another easy shortcut to cycle
> > among windows.
>
> > you might as well define another easy key to easily split and unsplit
> > the panes.
>
> > Here's snippet of code, assuming you use dvorak keyboard:
>
> > (global-set-key (kbd "M-o") 'move-cursor-next-pane)
> > (global-set-key (kbd "M-O") 'move-cursor-previous-pane)
>
> > (global-set-key (kbd "M-2") 'split-window-vertically)
> > (global-set-key (kbd "M-@") 'split-window-horizontally)
>
> > (global-set-key (kbd "M-1") 'delete-other-windows)
> > (global-set-key (kbd "M-!") 'delete-window)
>
> >   Xah
> > ∑http://xahlee.org/
>
> > ☄
>
> I use something similar.  My idea is to stay close to original emacs
> bindings but to avoid to many key strokes.
>
> ;;; Window splitting
> (global-set-key (kbd "M-3") 'split-window-horizontally) ; was digit-argument
> (global-set-key (kbd "M-2") 'split-window-vertically) ; was digit-argument
> (global-set-key (kbd "M-1") 'delete-other-windows) ; was digit-argument
> (global-set-key (kbd "M-0") 'delete-window) ; was digit-argument
> (global-set-key (kbd "M-o") 'other-window) ; was prefix
> ;; Remove locale key binding of M-o in dired
> (add-hook 'dired-mode-hook 'my-dired-mode-hook)
> (defun my-dired-mode-hook ()
>   (define-key dired-mode-map (kbd "M-o") nil)) ; was dired-omit-mode

umm.. that code looks like from
http://code.google.com/p/ergoemacs/

 Xah

Re: moving around multiple buffers

[Benjamin Andresen]

Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com> writes:

> On Aug 20, 10:50 pm, Torben Knudsen <t...@es.aau.dk> wrote:
[snip]
>> I use something similar.  My idea is to stay close to original emacs
>> bindings but to avoid to many key strokes.
>>
>> ;;; Window splitting
>> (global-set-key (kbd "M-3") 'split-window-horizontally) ; was digit-argument
>> (global-set-key (kbd "M-2") 'split-window-vertically) ; was digit-argument
>> (global-set-key (kbd "M-1") 'delete-other-windows) ; was digit-argument
>> (global-set-key (kbd "M-0") 'delete-window) ; was digit-argument
>> (global-set-key (kbd "M-o") 'other-window) ; was prefix
>> ;; Remove locale key binding of M-o in dired
>> (add-hook 'dired-mode-hook 'my-dired-mode-hook)
>> (defun my-dired-mode-hook ()
>>   (define-key dired-mode-map (kbd "M-o") nil)) ; was dired-omit-mode
>
> umm.. that code looks like from
> http://code.google.com/p/ergoemacs/

It doesn't. None of these lines appear as they are in ergoemacs. Also
that statement is completely ludicrous, it's a few keybindings...

Or is your claim that because he is binding keys using `global-set-key' he is
somehow plagiarizing ergoemacs?

I have this in my init.el as well, where do I have to send my royalties? ;-)
(global-set-key (kbd "M-o") 'other-window)

>  Xah

br,
benny

Re: moving around multiple buffers

[Xah Lee]

On Aug 21, 9:56 am, Benjamin Andresen <be...@in-ulm.de> wrote:
> Xah Lee <xah...@gmail.com> writes:
> > On Aug 20, 10:50 pm, Torben Knudsen <t...@es.aau.dk> wrote:
> [snip]
> >> I use something similar.  My idea is to stay close to original emacs
> >> bindings but to avoid to many key strokes.
>
> >> ;;; Window splitting
> >> (global-set-key (kbd "M-3") 'split-window-horizontally) ; was digit-argument
> >> (global-set-key (kbd "M-2") 'split-window-vertically) ; was digit-argument
> >> (global-set-key (kbd "M-1") 'delete-other-windows) ; was digit-argument
> >> (global-set-key (kbd "M-0") 'delete-window) ; was digit-argument
> >> (global-set-key (kbd "M-o") 'other-window) ; was prefix
> >> ;; Remove locale key binding of M-o in dired
> >> (add-hook 'dired-mode-hook 'my-dired-mode-hook)
> >> (defun my-dired-mode-hook ()
> >>   (define-key dired-mode-map (kbd "M-o") nil)) ; was dired-omit-mode
>
> > umm.. that code looks like from
> >http://code.google.com/p/ergoemacs/
>
> It doesn't. None of these lines appear as they are in ergoemacs.

look at old versions. Go to code.google.com, download tab, then in the
search, choose All Downloads. That will show older versions.

i noticed in many if not most tech geeker's projects hosted on google
code, they don't bother to mark older version as deprecated. So, their
download pages shows ALL the past versions. It kinda makes the page
full and glorious, and shows the download numbers. But i think its
silly and unhelpful...

 Xah

RE: moving around multiple buffers

[Drew Adams]

> I know how to do the splitting, but I am curious about what people use
> to move around.  Using C-x o (other-window) is a pain with many
> windows, same applies to selecting buffers by name (at least for me),
> and I want to avoid using the mouse for this.  I am thinking of
> something like "move to buffer B, regardless of what is there".

`icicle-select-window':

Select window by its name.
With no prefix arg, candidate windows are those of the selected frame.
With a prefix arg, windows of all visible frames are candidates.

A window name is the name of its displayed buffer, but suffixed as
needed by [NUMBER], to make the name unique.  For example, if you have
two windows showing buffer *Help*, one of the windows will be called
`*Help*[2]' for use with this command.

By default, `C-x o' does this in Icicles:

No prefix arg - almost same as vanilla Emacs:
  If multiple windows in frame, then `other-window'; else `other-frame'

`C-0 C-x o' - If multiple windows in frame, `icicle-select-window';
  else `icicle-select-frame' (analog to window)

`C-u C-x o' - Like `C-o C-x o', but windows in all frames are candidates.

Re: moving around multiple buffers

[A.Politz]

On Aug 20, 10:58 am, Tamas K Papp <tkp...@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
> I know how to do the splitting, but I am curious about what people use
> to move around.  Using C-x o (other-window) is a pain [...]


What about a little modality ?

(defun other-window-repeatable (arg)
  "Make it convenient to repeat `other-window', by just having to
press the last character of the invoking keysequence. Timeout
waiting after 3s."
  (interactive "p")
  (other-window arg)
  (let (readp)
    (while (eq last-input-event
               (setq readp
                     (read-event
                      (format "Press `%s' to repeat other-window."
                              (key-description
                               (vector last-input-event)))
                      nil 3)))
      (other-window (signum arg)))
    (message nil)
    (when readp
      (setq unread-command-events
            (list last-input-event)))))

(global-set-key [?\C-x ?o] 'other-window-repeatable)

Re: moving around multiple buffers

[Nikolaj Schumacher]

Tamas K Papp <tkpapp@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have seen screenshots of Emacs running with many buffers.  For
> example, having Emacs on the whole screen and splitting the buffers
> like this:
>
> A|B
> -+-
> C|D
>
> I know how to do the splitting, but I am curious about what people use
> to move around.  Using C-x o (other-window) is a pain with many
> windows, same applies to selecting buffers by name (at least for me),
> and I want to avoid using the mouse for this.  I am thinking of
> something like "move to buffer B, regardless of what is there".

I use numbers, similar to accessing tabs in Firefox.

http://nschum.de/src/emacs/window-numbering-mode/


regards,
Nikolaj Schumacher

Re: moving around multiple buffers

[Kevin Rodgers]

Tamas K Papp wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have seen screenshots of Emacs running with many buffers.  For
> example, having Emacs on the whole screen and splitting the buffers
> like this:
> 
> A|B
> -+-
> C|D
> 
> I know how to do the splitting, but I am curious about what people use
> to move around.  Using C-x o (other-window) is a pain with many
> windows, same applies to selecting buffers by name (at least for me),
> and I want to avoid using the mouse for this.  I am thinking of
> something like "move to buffer B, regardless of what is there".
> 
> I am interested in how other people handle these setups.  .emacs
> snippets are welcome, too.  Also, feel free to tell me if I am
> trying to do something silly that does not mesh well with Emacs.

I'm an old guy from the Unix click-to-type school.  But the one
thing I like about Emacs on Windows is the focus-follows-mouse
behavior out of the box.

`M-x apropos' is your friend.

-- 
Kevin Rodgers
Denver, Colorado, USA