* problem repeat entry for a number @ 2012-03-07 3:03 source liu 2012-03-07 3:42 ` Jambunathan K 2012-03-07 5:32 ` Teemu Likonen 0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: source liu @ 2012-03-07 3:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs hi list, i know one should repeat a command by C-u + <num> + command, for 'aaaaaaa' just type C-u 8 a. but i've come across to a problem such as '99999999', that doesn't work properly i'm afraid. C-u 9 9 would treat the 9 9 as '99' which means 99 times and expecting next input. Is there any suggestion to input such a case. Regards. -- Liu An Institution of modern physics, Shanghai, China ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: problem repeat entry for a number 2012-03-07 3:03 problem repeat entry for a number source liu @ 2012-03-07 3:42 ` Jambunathan K 2012-03-07 4:13 ` source liu 2012-03-07 5:32 ` Teemu Likonen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Jambunathan K @ 2012-03-07 3:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: source liu; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs source liu <sourceonly@gmail.com> writes: > hi list, > > i know one should repeat a command by C-u + <num> + command, for > 'aaaaaaa' just type C-u 8 a. > > but i've come across to a problem such as '99999999', that doesn't > work properly i'm afraid. C-u 9 9 would treat the 9 9 as '99' which > means 99 times and expecting next input. Is there any suggestion to > input such a case. C-u 9 C-q 9 -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: problem repeat entry for a number 2012-03-07 3:42 ` Jambunathan K @ 2012-03-07 4:13 ` source liu 2012-03-07 5:00 ` Deniz Dogan 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: source liu @ 2012-03-07 4:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jambunathan K; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs Jambunathan, Yes, it works, thanks. I didn't even though of C - q can be used as this Thanks another question: C-q can quote output C - a --- C - z, respectively, while not for available C - i and C - j, why? On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Jambunathan K <kjambunathan@gmail.com> wrote: > source liu <sourceonly@gmail.com> writes: > >> hi list, >> >> i know one should repeat a command by C-u + <num> + command, for >> 'aaaaaaa' just type C-u 8 a. >> >> but i've come across to a problem such as '99999999', that doesn't >> work properly i'm afraid. C-u 9 9 would treat the 9 9 as '99' which >> means 99 times and expecting next input. Is there any suggestion to >> input such a case. > > C-u 9 C-q 9 > > -- -- Liu An Institution of modern physics, Shanghai, China ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: problem repeat entry for a number 2012-03-07 4:13 ` source liu @ 2012-03-07 5:00 ` Deniz Dogan 2012-03-07 8:59 ` source liu 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Deniz Dogan @ 2012-03-07 5:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs On 2012-03-07 05:13, source liu wrote: > Jambunathan, > > Yes, it works, thanks. I didn't even though of C - q can be used as this > > Thanks > > another question: C-q can quote output C - a --- C - z, respectively, > while not for available C - i and C - j, why? > It does quote C-i and C-j, but C-i is the same as TAB and C-j is the same as newline. Their visual representation in Emacs differs from e.g. C-a and C-b. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: problem repeat entry for a number 2012-03-07 5:00 ` Deniz Dogan @ 2012-03-07 8:59 ` source liu 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: source liu @ 2012-03-07 8:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Deniz Dogan; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs I see, the display distorted me. I suppose to get ^I or ^J in the visual out put. is that different case from above case? what about C - m , C-q <Return> and C - q C - m On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Deniz Dogan <deniz@dogan.se> wrote: > On 2012-03-07 05:13, source liu wrote: >> >> Jambunathan, >> >> Yes, it works, thanks. I didn't even though of C - q can be used as this >> >> Thanks >> >> another question: C-q can quote output C - a --- C - z, respectively, >> while not for available C - i and C - j, why? >> > > It does quote C-i and C-j, but C-i is the same as TAB and C-j is the same as > newline. Their visual representation in Emacs differs from e.g. C-a and > C-b. > -- Liu An Institution of modern physics, Shanghai, China ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: problem repeat entry for a number 2012-03-07 3:03 problem repeat entry for a number source liu 2012-03-07 3:42 ` Jambunathan K @ 2012-03-07 5:32 ` Teemu Likonen 2012-03-07 9:01 ` source liu 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Teemu Likonen @ 2012-03-07 5:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: source liu; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs * source liu [2012-03-07 11:03:24 +0800] wrote: > i know one should repeat a command by C-u + <num> + command, for > 'aaaaaaa' just type C-u 8 a. > > but i've come across to a problem such as '99999999', that doesn't > work properly i'm afraid. C-u 9 9 would treat the 9 9 as '99' which > means 99 times and expecting next input. Is there any suggestion to > input such a case. The Emacs Editor manual teaches to use C-u to terminate a numeric argument: M-9 C-u 9 C-u 9 C-u 9 (info "(emacs) Arguments") ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: problem repeat entry for a number 2012-03-07 5:32 ` Teemu Likonen @ 2012-03-07 9:01 ` source liu 2012-03-08 8:05 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: source liu @ 2012-03-07 9:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Teemu Likonen; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs Every time I post my question out indices i missed the manual some where! How sad! :( Thank you for the altered way to do this On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> wrote: > * source liu [2012-03-07 11:03:24 +0800] wrote: > >> i know one should repeat a command by C-u + <num> + command, for >> 'aaaaaaa' just type C-u 8 a. >> >> but i've come across to a problem such as '99999999', that doesn't >> work properly i'm afraid. C-u 9 9 would treat the 9 9 as '99' which >> means 99 times and expecting next input. Is there any suggestion to >> input such a case. > > The Emacs Editor manual teaches to use C-u to terminate a numeric > argument: > > M-9 C-u 9 > C-u 9 C-u 9 > > (info "(emacs) Arguments") -- Liu An Institution of modern physics, Shanghai, China ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: problem repeat entry for a number 2012-03-07 9:01 ` source liu @ 2012-03-08 8:05 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen 2012-03-08 8:17 ` source liu 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Thien-Thi Nguyen @ 2012-03-08 8:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: source liu; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs () source liu <sourceonly@gmail.com> () Wed, 7 Mar 2012 17:01:32 +0800 Every time I post my question out indices i missed the manual some where! How sad! :( Cheer up. I see it as an opportunity to improve the manual. What terms did you use to search for this info? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: problem repeat entry for a number 2012-03-08 8:05 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen @ 2012-03-08 8:17 ` source liu 2012-03-08 8:54 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: source liu @ 2012-03-08 8:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Thien-Thi Nguyen; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 4:05 PM, Thien-Thi Nguyen <ttn@gnuvola.org> wrote: > () source liu <sourceonly@gmail.com> > () Wed, 7 Mar 2012 17:01:32 +0800 > > Every time I post my question out indices > i missed the manual some where! How sad! :( > > Cheer up. > I see it as an opportunity to improve the manual. > What terms did you use to search for this info? here term you mean something like rxvt xterm? I'm sorry I'm not quite understand. as for manuals, i have a problem in looking it up for a quite a long time. A lot of information I know it should be in C - h, but when i come across to a issue, i just can't find which is related to the specific issue. :( -- Liu An Institution of modern physics, Shanghai, China ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: problem repeat entry for a number 2012-03-08 8:17 ` source liu @ 2012-03-08 8:54 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen 2012-03-08 9:25 ` source liu 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Thien-Thi Nguyen @ 2012-03-08 8:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: source liu; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs () source liu <sourceonly@gmail.com> () Thu, 8 Mar 2012 16:17:39 +0800 > I see it as an opportunity to improve the manual. > What terms did you use to search for this info? here term you mean something like rxvt xterm? I'm sorry I'm not quite understand. Sorry, i'll rephrase ... as for manuals, i have a problem in looking it up for a quite a long time. A lot of information I know it should be in C - h, but when i come across to a issue, i just can't find which is related to the specific issue. :( ... here: The Emacs hackers would like to improve the manual so that the answer to questions such as "how to insert 999999999 using a prefix argument" can be more easily found, perhaps by adding terms to the manual's index, or by adding/clarifying specific pieces of text. To figure out what to do, it's best to know what happened, previously. That's why i asked that question, with "term" being another way to say "index topic". I presumed (maybe mistakenly?) that you used the index. So, more generally: "What was your strategy to search for the answer to this question?" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: problem repeat entry for a number 2012-03-08 8:54 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen @ 2012-03-08 9:25 ` source liu 2012-03-12 11:17 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: source liu @ 2012-03-08 9:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Thien-Thi Nguyen; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 4:54 PM, Thien-Thi Nguyen <ttn@gnuvola.org> wrote: > () source liu <sourceonly@gmail.com> > () Thu, 8 Mar 2012 16:17:39 +0800 > > > I see it as an opportunity to improve the manual. > > What terms did you use to search for this info? > > here term you mean something like rxvt xterm? > I'm sorry I'm not quite understand. > > Sorry, i'll rephrase ... > > as for manuals, i have a problem in looking it up for a quite a > long time. > > A lot of information I know it should be in C - h, but when i > come across to a issue, i just can't find which is related to > the specific issue. :( > > ... here: > > The Emacs hackers would like to improve the manual so that the > answer to questions such as "how to insert 999999999 using a > prefix argument" can be more easily found, perhaps by adding terms > to the manual's index, or by adding/clarifying specific pieces of > text. To figure out what to do, it's best to know what happened, > previously. That's why i asked that question, with "term" being > another way to say "index topic". I presumed (maybe mistakenly?) > that you used the index. > > So, more generally: "What was your strategy to search for the > answer to this question?" got it, thanks for your patience. first i tried C - h k C-u, and get help message. of course it gave out some information, but i'm a little dazzled by the description. *** part of C -h k C-u ***** Repeating C-u without digits or minus sign multiplies the argument by 4 each time. For some commands, just C-u by itself serves as a flag *** end of C -h k C-u ***** I may treat the flag "C-u" as a *terminating flag* now since i know C-u can be used this way. but at that time i thought nothing of it ( even not think of type C -u again) and of course, i've no idea about C -q for quote input numbers until i got answer from the mailist. i also tried to use C-h k M - <num> and C-h k C-<num>, but failed to get answer. then, i tried to find answers through internet, and find little related information. finally, I join the list and made a post, and got the satisfied answers if there is better way (or how should i do the search), plz tell me, it would help a lot. Regards. -- Liu An Institution of modern physics, Shanghai, China ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: problem repeat entry for a number 2012-03-08 9:25 ` source liu @ 2012-03-12 11:17 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen 2012-03-13 3:13 ` source liu 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Thien-Thi Nguyen @ 2012-03-12 11:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: source liu; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs () Thien-Thi Nguyen <ttn@gnuvola.org> () Fri, 09 Mar 2012 09:05:33 +0100 got it, thanks for your patience. first i tried C - h k C-u, and get help message. of course it gave out some information, but i'm a little dazzled by the description. *** part of C -h k C-u ***** Repeating C-u without digits or minus sign multiplies the argument by 4 each time. For some commands, just C-u by itself serves as a flag *** end of C -h k C-u ***** I may treat the flag "C-u" as a *terminating flag* now since i know C-u can be used this way. but at that time i thought nothing of it ( even not think of type C -u again) and of course, i've no idea about C -q for quote input numbers until i got answer from the mailist. Another way to say that C-u can act as "terminating flag" is this sentence: C-u following the digits or minus sign ends the argument. which follows the previous one: Digits or minus sign following C-u make up the numeric argument. which in turn follows: Begin a numeric argument for the following command. Reading those in order, here is what i think and do: Begin a numeric argument for OK, having typed C-u once, i have the following command. now "begun a numeric argument"; i am now in a new state of input where i can express that argument directly to Emacs. Digits or minus sign following Wonderful! In this new state, if C-u make up the numeric i type digits, they accumulate in argument. the minibuffer. I like number 9, so i type 9 because this argument is meant to tell the next command to insert a character that many times. Yeah! C-u following the digits or OK, now i want to command Emacs minus sign ends the argument. to insert a char. Normally i can simply type the char, thus doing two actions: flagging termination (leaving the special input state) and issuing another (self-insert) command. I wonder why this other C-u invocation is mentioned here. Hmm, i see that if i type another digit now, Emacs does NOT do the right thing (reading my mind). Stupid Emacs! I suppose i will have to separate the actions, and that's what C-u is for. Perhaps i can use it for non-digits, too. Anyway, let's try: i type C-u and see it in the minibuffer; i type 9 and see "999999999" inserted in the buffer. Good, Emacs may be stupid but at the very least it is obedient. So, one suggestion to avoid being dazzled is to take it easy and read the help text slowly, exercizing immediately what you understand (or misunderstand) to keep your feet on the ground. This is easy because Emacs is interactive, can undo mistakes, and is obedient (usually :-D). i also tried to use C-h k M - <num> and C-h k C-<num>, but failed to get answer. This is because you were moving too quickly, as i did when i presumed you had read the manual. See, we all rush needlessly sometimes. then, i tried to find answers through internet, and find little related information. If we converse well, perhaps our exchange here will help someone else in the future. But, there is no guarantee. finally, I join the list and made a post, and got the satisfied answers Thanks for explaining. if there is better way (or how should i do the search), plz tell me, it would help a lot. Well, life is a search, so if you want a better search, live a better life! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: problem repeat entry for a number 2012-03-12 11:17 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen @ 2012-03-13 3:13 ` source liu 2012-03-13 10:46 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: source liu @ 2012-03-13 3:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Thien-Thi Nguyen; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Thien-Thi Nguyen <ttn@gnuvola.org> wrote: > () Thien-Thi Nguyen <ttn@gnuvola.org> > () Fri, 09 Mar 2012 09:05:33 +0100 > > got it, thanks for your patience. > > first i tried C - h k C-u, and get help message. > > of course it gave out some information, but i'm a little dazzled by > the description. > > *** part of C -h k C-u ***** > Repeating C-u without digits or minus sign > multiplies the argument by 4 each time. > For some commands, just C-u by itself serves as a flag > *** end of C -h k C-u ***** > > I may treat the flag "C-u" as a *terminating flag* now since i know > C-u can be used this way. but at that time i thought nothing of it > ( even not think of type C -u again) and of course, i've no idea about > C -q for quote > input numbers until i got answer from the mailist. > > Another way to say that C-u can act as "terminating flag" is this sentence: > > C-u following the digits or minus sign ends the argument. > > which follows the previous one: > > Digits or minus sign following C-u make up the numeric argument. > > which in turn follows: > > Begin a numeric argument for the following command. > > Reading those in order, here is what i think and do: > > Begin a numeric argument for OK, having typed C-u once, i have > the following command. now "begun a numeric argument"; > i am now in a new state of input > where i can express that argument > directly to Emacs. > > Digits or minus sign following Wonderful! In this new state, if > C-u make up the numeric i type digits, they accumulate in > argument. the minibuffer. I like number 9, > so i type 9 because this argument > is meant to tell the next command > to insert a character that many > times. Yeah! yes, that's the exact layout in emacs help buffer. > C-u following the digits or OK, now i want to command Emacs > minus sign ends the argument. to insert a char. Normally i can > simply type the char, thus doing > two actions: flagging termination > (leaving the special input state) > and issuing another (self-insert) > command. I wonder why this other > C-u invocation is mentioned here. > Hmm, i see that if i type another > digit now, Emacs does NOT do the > right thing (reading my mind). > Stupid Emacs! I suppose i will > have to separate the actions, and > that's what C-u is for. Perhaps > i can use it for non-digits, too. > Anyway, let's try: i type C-u and > see it in the minibuffer; i type > 9 and see "999999999" inserted in > the buffer. Good, Emacs may be > stupid but at the very least it > is obedient. emmm.... that's the way i think so. as i don't exactly know the "flag" means, i want to try it out manually, unfortunately i choose "minus sign" (is that char '-' on keyboard? ), for i think it's equivalent to "C - u" according to the description above. so i type C - u 9 '-' to terminate num args input, but it direct layout --------- (nine '-'s) in buffer. yet i have never tried "C - u" instead of the minus sign '-', what a pity that the fact is only several feet away from me. Thanks so much for the detailed explanation, so grateful and helpful. > So, one suggestion to avoid being dazzled is to take it easy > and read the help text slowly, exercizing immediately what you > understand (or misunderstand) to keep your feet on the ground. > This is easy because Emacs is interactive, can undo mistakes, > and is obedient (usually :-D). > > i also tried to use C-h k M - <num> and C-h k C-<num>, > but failed to get answer. > > This is because you were moving too quickly, as i did when i > presumed you had read the manual. See, we all rush needlessly > sometimes. > > then, i tried to find answers through internet, and find > little related information. > > If we converse well, perhaps our exchange here will help someone > else in the future. But, there is no guarantee. > > finally, I join the list and made a post, and got the > satisfied answers > > Thanks for explaining. That's the point, i always want to run before i can walk. :-D, at least i found i wasn't in the mailist, i though i should have be there. > if there is better way (or how should i do the search), plz > tell me, it would help a lot. > Well, life is a search, so if you want a better search, live a better life! excellent argument, applause. Regards -- Liu An Institution of modern physics, Shanghai, China ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: problem repeat entry for a number 2012-03-13 3:13 ` source liu @ 2012-03-13 10:46 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen 2012-03-13 15:34 ` source liu 2012-03-13 15:49 ` Drew Adams 0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Thien-Thi Nguyen @ 2012-03-13 10:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: source liu; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs () source liu <sourceonly@gmail.com> () Tue, 13 Mar 2012 11:13:55 +0800 emmm.... that's the way i think so. as i don't exactly know the "flag" means, i want to try it out manually, unfortunately i choose "minus sign" (is that char '-' on keyboard? ), for i think it's equivalent to "C - u" according to the description above. I can see two possible meanings of this sentence: C-u following the digits or minus sign ends the argument. In the first way, we could read it as: C-u following the digits or minus sign ends the argument. --- ---------------------------------- ----------------- NP PREP VP where NP ≡ noun phrase, PREP ≡ prepositional phrase, VP ≡ verb phrase. Discarding PREP, the gist of the sentence (NP VP) is: C-u ends the argument. In the second way, we could read it as: C-u following the digits or minus sign ends the argument. --- -------------------- -- ---------- ----------------- NP1 PREP C NP2 VP where C ≡ conjunction. Discarding PREP, the gist is: C-u or minus sign ends the argument. --- -- ---------- NP1 C NP2 ------------------- ----------------- NP VP I think this is what led you to: [...] type C - u 9 '-' to terminate num args input, but it direct layout --------- (nine '-'s) in buffer. yet i have never tried "C - u" instead of the minus sign '-', what a pity that the fact is only several feet away from me. To a native English speaker, probably the first way above would seem most natural. To express the second way, an explicit setup, commas, and (maybe) an indefinite article, would be used: Either C-u, following the digits, or a minus sign, ends the argument. ------ --- -------------------- -- ------------ ----------------- SETUP NP1 PREP C NP2 VP Here, SETUP gives a clue that C is forthcoming, the "a" in NP2 gives a clue that "minus sign" is not parallel to "digits" (which has a definite article "the") and thus is not part of PREP. Now this construction is much more verbose and comma-plicated :-D, and would merit low style marks. To improve it, one could shift PREP after NP2, leaving a more idiomatic compound-NP: C-u or minus sign, following the digits, ends the argument. --- -- ---------- -------------------- ----------------- NP1 C NP2 PREP VP ------------------- NP Note we drop SETUP, the "a" in NP2, and also one comma. All this work just to express well an _incorrect_ description of the behavior! So, back to the real problem: Is there anything you would suggest to the Emacs hackers for the purpose of improving the text so that it expresses well (unambiguously and in good style) the _correct_ description (the first way) of the behavior? That's the point, i always want to run before i can walk. That's natural. In any case, you can run around a lot in Emacs. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: problem repeat entry for a number 2012-03-13 10:46 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen @ 2012-03-13 15:34 ` source liu 2012-03-14 7:22 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen 2012-03-13 15:49 ` Drew Adams 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: source liu @ 2012-03-13 15:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Thien-Thi Nguyen; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs > So, back to the real problem: Is there anything you would > suggest to the Emacs hackers for the purpose of improving the > text so that it expresses well (unambiguously and in good style) > the _correct_ description (the first way) of the behavior? A mistake can rise up in any different aspects, while a correct one have few choice. :) In my point of view, maybe shorter sentences, more itemized threads for those none English native speakers like me, will lead to fewer misunderstanding. yet it may not keep the manual threads simple and brief any more. Honestly speaking, after your explanation, i realize it was my fault failed to read the sentence correctly this time. I think I understand the expression, but I still have a question on, is there any case of "C-u" following a minus sign? C-u <num> , here num is either negative or positive, there is no minus sign at the end of the <num> argument. 1. here one cant type C - u <num> '-' to get the minus sign as the end ( in this case '-' would be char layout in the buffer). 2. C-u '-' ( the only available case i can figure out, but i think it is meaningless) , also, type C-u again just start another instant of num argument input, still different from the case that terminate the argument input. (though in minibuff C-u - C-u, but i can't see any difference between single C - u here) so, i wonder why 'the minus sign' appears in the very sentence. as a result, "C-u following the digits ends the argument." is enough, unless someone can show me the necessary of "minus sign" here I wont be afraid to make another mistake next time if there are any chances., :) btw, are you one of those so called "emacs hacks"? cool!! Thanks again for you patience. -- Liu An Institution of modern physics, Shanghai, China ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: problem repeat entry for a number 2012-03-13 15:34 ` source liu @ 2012-03-14 7:22 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen 2012-03-14 8:46 ` source liu 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Thien-Thi Nguyen @ 2012-03-14 7:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: source liu; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs () source liu <sourceonly@gmail.com> () Tue, 13 Mar 2012 11:34:34 -0400 A mistake can rise up in any different aspects, while a correct one have few choice. :) I agree, up to a point. In my point of view, maybe shorter sentences, more itemized threads for those none English native speakers like me, will lead to fewer misunderstanding. yet it may not keep the manual threads simple and brief any more. OK. Honestly speaking, after your explanation, i realize it was my fault failed to read the sentence correctly this time. When there is a problem in communication, finding fault is easy. When there is a problem in understanding, finding fault is hard. Anyway, finding fault is only the start of fixing the problem. I think I understand the expression, but I still have a question on, is there any case of "C-u" following a minus sign? C-u <num> , here num is either negative or positive, there is no minus sign at the end of the <num> argument. 1. here one cant type C - u <num> '-' to get the minus sign as the end ( in this case '-' would be char layout in the buffer). Right. 2. C-u '-' ( the only available case i can figure out, but i think it is meaningless) , also, type C-u again just start another instant of num argument input, still different from the case that terminate the argument input. (though in minibuff C-u - C-u, but i can't see any difference between single C - u here) Sometimes right, sometimes wrong, sometimes no matter. Consider: (defun p-try (&optional arg) "Show ARG in the echo area, as by (interactive \"p\")." (interactive "p") (message "arg is: %S" arg)) (defun P-try (&optional arg) "Show ARG in the echo area, as by (interactive \"P\")." (interactive "P") (message "arg is: %S" arg)) (global-set-key [(shift return)] 'p-try) (global-set-key [(meta return)] 'P-try) If you evaluate these forms in *scratch*, you can try the following experiments: 1. S-RET 2. C-u S-RET 3. C-u - S-RET 4. C-u - C-u S-RET (and so on) You will find that a lone minus sign has meaning sometimes. For more information, type: - C-h f interactive RET - C-h f - RET Furthermore, each command chooses the way it handles the argument supplied by C-u (if any). When you write new commands, it is good practice to mention this (to avoid the (lack of) communication problem :-D). so, i wonder why 'the minus sign' appears in the very sentence. as a result, "C-u following the digits ends the argument." is enough, unless someone can show me the necessary of "minus sign" here C-u is a way to supply qualified numerical information, and not only numerical. Perhaps someone who knows its history can explain how it evolved to its present functionality. I wont be afraid to make another mistake next time if there are any chances., :) Cool. btw, are you one of those so called "emacs hacks"? cool!! I am a student of Emacs. Thanks again for you patience. Thanks for the opportunity to spew. :-D ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: problem repeat entry for a number 2012-03-14 7:22 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen @ 2012-03-14 8:46 ` source liu 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: source liu @ 2012-03-14 8:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Thien-Thi Nguyen; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs > (defun p-try (&optional arg) > "Show ARG in the echo area, as by (interactive \"p\")." > (interactive "p") > (message "arg is: %S" arg)) > > (defun P-try (&optional arg) > "Show ARG in the echo area, as by (interactive \"P\")." > (interactive "P") > (message "arg is: %S" arg)) > > (global-set-key [(shift return)] 'p-try) > (global-set-key [(meta return)] 'P-try) > > If you evaluate these forms in *scratch*, you can try the > following experiments: > > 1. S-RET > 2. C-u S-RET > 3. C-u - S-RET > 4. C-u - C-u S-RET > (and so on) Interesting example, maybe i could start my survey of elisp from here. Here 4th cases the 2nd C -u serves as mutiple by 4. Right? > C-u is a way to supply qualified numerical information, and not > only numerical. Perhaps someone who knows its history can explain > how it evolved to its present functionality. Got it. no more questions on this topic for now. > I am a student of Emacs. You are modest! > Thanks for the opportunity to spew. :-D did it feel more purify of yourself after spew? :-D -- Liu An Institution of modern physics, Shanghai, China ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* RE: problem repeat entry for a number 2012-03-13 10:46 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen 2012-03-13 15:34 ` source liu @ 2012-03-13 15:49 ` Drew Adams 2012-03-14 2:12 ` source liu 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2012-03-13 15:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Thien-Thi Nguyen', 'source liu'; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs > In the first way, we could read it as [correct]: > C-u (following the digits or minus sign) ends the argument. ... > In the second way, we could read it as: > ((C-u following the digits) or (minus sign)) ends the argument. ... > Is there anything you would > suggest to the Emacs hackers for the purpose of improving the > text so that it expresses well (unambiguously and in good style) > the _correct_ description (the first way) of the behavior? Following the digits or minus sign, C-u ends the argument. or If hit again after typing the digits or minus sign, C-u ends the argument. or To end the argument, hit C-u after typing the digits or minus sign. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: problem repeat entry for a number 2012-03-13 15:49 ` Drew Adams @ 2012-03-14 2:12 ` source liu 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: source liu @ 2012-03-14 2:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Drew Adams; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs, Thien-Thi Nguyen On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 11:49 PM, Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> wrote: >> In the first way, we could read it as [correct]: >> C-u (following the digits or minus sign) ends the argument. > ... >> In the second way, we could read it as: >> ((C-u following the digits) or (minus sign)) ends the argument. > ... >> Is there anything you would >> suggest to the Emacs hackers for the purpose of improving the >> text so that it expresses well (unambiguously and in good style) >> the _correct_ description (the first way) of the behavior? > > Following the digits or minus sign, C-u ends the argument. > > or > > If hit again after typing the digits or minus sign, C-u ends the argument. > > or > > To end the argument, hit C-u after typing the digits or minus sign. > Yes, i can follow the sentences at my first glance. but in fact it is not my first glance on this issue up till now. :) The style of the 3rd one sounds better to me. Thanks. Regards -- Liu An Institution of modern physics, Shanghai, China ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2012-03-14 8:46 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 19+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2012-03-07 3:03 problem repeat entry for a number source liu 2012-03-07 3:42 ` Jambunathan K 2012-03-07 4:13 ` source liu 2012-03-07 5:00 ` Deniz Dogan 2012-03-07 8:59 ` source liu 2012-03-07 5:32 ` Teemu Likonen 2012-03-07 9:01 ` source liu 2012-03-08 8:05 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen 2012-03-08 8:17 ` source liu 2012-03-08 8:54 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen 2012-03-08 9:25 ` source liu 2012-03-12 11:17 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen 2012-03-13 3:13 ` source liu 2012-03-13 10:46 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen 2012-03-13 15:34 ` source liu 2012-03-14 7:22 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen 2012-03-14 8:46 ` source liu 2012-03-13 15:49 ` Drew Adams 2012-03-14 2:12 ` source liu
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