From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Heerdegen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Closures - do you understand them well? Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2023 13:09:22 +0100 Message-ID: <87pm9qavf1.fsf@web.de> References: <87h6y5pt8k.fsf@web.de> <87bkodpqnk.fsf@web.de> <87k030tlfh.fsf@web.de> <87ilike1l8.fsf@gnu.org> <87cz8suv92.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87pmcpo1wz.fsf@web.de> <87pmcpm9vn.fsf@web.de> <87sfg8xcps.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87h6wmacdn.fsf@web.de> <87v8krlo9q.fsf@dataswamp.org> <875ycrsd2c.fsf@web.de> <87ilfowq63.fsf@dataswamp.org> <877cw2yu6a.fsf@web.de> <87fsaofbjy.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30221"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 03 13:09:59 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pY4EZ-0007fR-B5 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 03 Mar 2023 13:09:59 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pY4E8-0002Yv-Ul; Fri, 03 Mar 2023 07:09:32 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pY4E6-0002Ya-Ow for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Mar 2023 07:09:30 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.17.11]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pY4E5-0003Xb-0r for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Mar 2023 07:09:30 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1677845365; i=michael_heerdegen@web.de; bh=rf41iC4h6h6WeLFxWo6sxqwvvJq7HQPPrlaaqEUZLVw=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=imXWxs+Q8XE+Hu7pXap5ESait0fbveIywofkKIfZ3bRp016CRsOuOAXMwwGffa3g8 CBL9KjzuBVEqC8YKNokilMzyiIyil9kv5iQzDajA8kACZnK0diwIVvqCB9HpSq6483 t9LZcwtpFumCyS2cN5GK6bmyasvtP5zxslZguX/PN91KpJPaucq9WdHlzcQLK6SOBE aZ41FGp2puaOKFRVmmvPCb/IMpJx4jtxj6qr6xvm5FS0fb1SXTB1NwuHzrj3HyL/ys VMDEELXV5euI+Vx328n855FzMPwdFJMEjN/7MB8pl26sNQWi3PceQMkkCJAr6Px4zP 32mtX/hkvje2w== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Original-Received: from drachen.dragon ([84.59.210.57]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb105 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MKMA1-1ptBJS0mR5-00LsAm; Fri, 03 Mar 2023 13:09:25 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87fsaofbjy.fsf@dataswamp.org> (Emanuel Berg's message of "Wed, 01 Mar 2023 21:42:41 +0100") X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:bIzP1Qv0V33RYv+oQGaahHVksjtjRS9uHzLmcUMx6ZNt8QKGPxq BuU8maIREFhc/2DnltruZExl1aZyNN6FXeRrBZL21OLNEDDA8+P4zSHG3valum92XVtP5fH pmwjDc89meKet7ZRald581T5n1wmWJQv0l0UdJubcjuhCtS9XiCWE2aSx00fs6kE7xzalRf O99eRl8ERfzG0x0m5+YUA== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:VQshwG9DVCM=;/QjqCErhOLT0LS3CMcURV5KvX/d 8zKoglNamDFEwP1udpK2HNKphqfZwxSDBJtIrCD3eHSQ8lmwf4pPO25MUaJezAsm597abuix7 +Qx2dWV2Nu0cSPTeJxyiQQDRkIhi5MouaTcy5q3FPpNuvDhXlkP5Vhq31zIAafpVxVqkeapdr 3vlKG1JoC6/JM1oho9t1hgnmDB7UftlJbXP1qnW5ScidnEp87pCU+0XSKT99g30GoEdd+vMNw UjO/hiL30o7DUIKna64r0I16BClF4OK6VZpqmy3glQ4YNsq2YWkXXfgBwXgFPh/kcuaUq95rw RervBHig9it+UXBcOwARQza81d0QRMSChHHu4d0BUIPwKYJ4mPI+F72FbDKEJ5tDX3Q6+vxno mAXht9iy8gqYT7lGkA3qWKSkqL1NFe+XjDjW4ak5yMg1F3zkP9d5+Jn1puw2aReDDKxUHWauQ 5SXxpnHSFA1zRhle1xw5PWw1NDxfaAQWXjCtKv357Hc4SIMnSbb4lSrZ2Ok3dC+hvam/N5Qtr S/4oAQcW91uX8XNjA+I6deNxEawnO5AUt3QXtkGCSl4iCbufynLaaVEU9Ep4xO/Wsag1qSzFc 1Q93sgTbGwV6m3h/ULWgV0iwHo2BrBHQGrYT+yh4v52vra3gD3GITrfie871/Nl2iNPAZbkJo jj/HmD1TRXhK3TzWCyjUwASSPsNuUJhuvPyvlvajwz2tnADeMER4mBPbDpKYphN0FQUKUCLvO tHZenle03vPzcDGIGuy/QXEtKReLPxpfrQqb2YT72bCbdnl/izKvBCPZMKou8rRAFsMlX5At Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.11; envelope-from=michael_heerdegen@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:142903 Archived-At: Emanuel Berg writes: > Michael Heerdegen wrote: > > >> Are we talking lexical let-closures? Why not? > > > > Unless I still misunderstand your question: Lisp is > > a high-level language, not Assembler, so like you don't > > modify the bytes of byte-code functions by hand, you also > > don't edit the internal representation of closures. > > ??? Assembler? > > It seems to be some big misunderstanding here, yes :) > > I simply mean this: > > (let ((...)) > (defun () ...) ) Yes, I'm aware that this is what you are thinking about now. But I think you diverged a bit from the question I had answered in this subthread. I had answered something different. This answer was about (please go some messages up...) your question about why we don't use to change function values (destructively) as we once did with lambda forms before lexical binding existed. Michael.