From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Elisp addiction not as bad in light of Linux forkoholism Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 06:16:27 +0100 Organization: Informatimago Message-ID: <87oarp9sk4.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> References: <873891sgaw.fsf@debian.uxu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417325127 17987 80.91.229.3 (30 Nov 2014 05:25:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 05:25:27 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 30 06:25:22 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xux0c-0006yC-1M for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 06:25:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49671 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xux0b-0005j0-KM for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 00:25:21 -0500 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 51 Original-X-Trace: individual.net fRypdVNf3A6HoANeMiQ8cA6q+l9FAGohFjqwPOwC3xAiBslZB4 Cancel-Lock: sha1:YjNlNGZjZmI1NTU4ZDEzOWI0YTIzNmM0NDQ3NmNjNGU2ZGJiNzM1Mw== sha1:/A3W8YJqkzrEjfU8GFqew7ky+dE= Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAQMAAABtzGvEAAAABlBMVEUAAAD///+l2Z/dAAAA oElEQVR4nK3OsRHCMAwF0O8YQufUNIQRGIAja9CxSA55AxZgFO4coMgYrEDDQZWPIlNAjwq9 033pbOBPtbXuB6PKNBn5gZkhGa86Z4x2wE67O+06WxGD/HCOGR0deY3f9Ijwwt7rNGNf6Oac l/GuZTF1wFGKiYYHKSFAkjIo1b6sCYS1sVmFhhhahKQssRjRT90ITWUk6vvK3RsPGs+M1RuR mV+hO/VvFAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Accept-Language: fr, es, en User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:209029 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:101308 Archived-At: Emanuel Berg writes: > init is, I think, a remnant of AT&T's UNIX System V. > init has been around on Unix systems a long time, > including Linux systems. init is functional but very > heavy-handed and hackish in style - for example, > running system userspace startup (and exit) processes > - and in what order - relies on the file*names* of > scripts! You call it hackish, but I find it is an essential unixism. Using the file system as a database for unix administration data, keeping other unix adminstration data in simple text file tables (instead of more sophisticated, but also much more brittle databases (think for example, the various versions of Sun NIS (Yellow Pages), NeXT/Apple NetInfo, and now Directory Services (how long will it last!?)). This is essential to keep unix administration data in simple text files, and possibly in structured directories (ie. with file names encoding things like order of loading or others), because this is what gives unix its discoverability and ease of administration (and ease of writing administrative tools). On the other hand, I don't mind people developping non-unix systems, using a unix kernel and adding layers, such as Android. But that should not trample upon a true unix system. > So because of some child-diseases and other obstacles > that were to be expected, there has been a constant > ruckus and never-ending hullabaloo where many people - > including those that should probably focus on their > stuff - have expressed dislike in unpleasant ways. I've not looked at systemd too closely, but AFAICS, the problem is not child-diseases, but more that it's not enough unixy. It's kind of like launchd on MacOSX, and, while I must admit that launchd finally seems to work satisfactorily, I wouldn't say that it plays nice from a unix point of view. > And now, classy old Debian has forked again! Ubuntu forked from Debian and it's not a bad thing (arguably). -- __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/ “The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment.” -- Carl Bass CEO Autodesk