From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Thanks Re: Global keymap not found Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2015 22:18:08 +0200 Message-ID: <87oag794ov.fsf@debian.uxu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1444421969 6336 80.91.229.3 (9 Oct 2015 20:19:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 20:19:29 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 09 22:19:19 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Zke8M-0001gb-MW for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 09 Oct 2015 22:19:18 +0200 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zke7g-0000Jx-H7 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 09 Oct 2015 16:19:18 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:57041) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zke7g-0000Ho-6C for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 09 Oct 2015 16:18:36 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42226 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zke7g-0002Y3-2v for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 09 Oct 2015 16:18:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34872) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zke7T-0002Xw-V3 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Oct 2015 16:18:25 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zke7P-0007wu-NV for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Oct 2015 16:18:23 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:48500) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zke7P-0007wh-GU for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Oct 2015 16:18:19 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Zke7N-0000j5-4q for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 09 Oct 2015 22:18:17 +0200 Original-Received: from nl106-137-244.student.uu.se ([130.243.137.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 09 Oct 2015 22:18:17 +0200 Original-Received: from embe8573 by nl106-137-244.student.uu.se with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 09 Oct 2015 22:18:17 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-Lines: 63 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: nl106-137-244.student.uu.se Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:uL1gpLbXxEJPJ8aXMnQpk8/NyTc= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:107564 Archived-At: Albrecht Mehl writes: > Maybe people here think 'A beginner should be > moderate and not ask for improvements' so that I get > here a bad image. Not everyone thinks so. This people thinks a beginner should be as active as possible with as much energy and commitment and persistence as possible, because time + activity is the best, perhaps only, way to learn. The best activity is when the beginner tries to act like an expert. If you act like an expert, that is what you become, sooner most often rather than later. But this works the other way as well. If a person acts like a moron addicted to his/her iThing, that is what you get and this doesn't even take time... Also a note on beginners vs. experts. Emacs isn't like bike mechanics or martial arts. It isn't a craft like that. Or actually, it is more than a craft - it is a window to creativity. One may focus on the craft, the creativity, anything in between, or everything at once. But an "Emacs expert" is somewhat a contradiction in terms. Or at least it is much better to be a Unix, Lisp, or C expert, with enough Emacs knowledge to have Gnus and w3m up and running and to tweak Emacs to work full cylinders for his particular purposes. > - Fundamental things should be available at once and > not after hopping from one point to another to > another ... - They should be available in the > manual, too, not just in the info manual - The > manual should have three appendices - there might be > other candidates - Acting like a beginner - general discussion.. Blaha blaha. > 1. Alphabetical list of all global (prefix) keys 2. > Alph. list of all global commands 3. List of all > global commands grouped according to scope - The > chapters in the manual are numerated within the > text. So they should be in the table of context as > well. People write 'Look at 49.1' e.g. and one > wonders where this is. Much better. Also be 100% specific and to the point: e.g., "the fundamental thing F should be available at point P..." As you've noticed, this refers to the form only. I'm not involved in this particular issue. Good luck! -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573