Even more Gnus material: we made the paper!

Even more Gnus material: we made the paper!

[Emanuel Berg]

I've learned a university computer guy in the US,
Joshua Braun of Quinnipiac University, Connecticut,
has given a "talk" (?) on the computer culture that
is us.

The talk comes with a four-paragraph text, which is
what I've got, so I haven't heard the actual talk.
He quotes me thrice, including the title of the
talk/text: "Bypassing the web."

I only have a vague memory of saying that, but I sure
recognize those thoughts and attitudes in general.

To be 100% correct, it is actually not "bypassing the
web". It is really "getting to the desired data, which
is on the web, only not using the conventional GUI
programs but our own shell and text tools".

But the spirit of the phrase is correct and everyone
understands the meaning!

And the rest of the text? No comments! I agree.
(Except one comment. Read on!)

Anyway here is the article as a PDF, as I learned
about it:

    https://ahcsconference.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/braun.pdf

But let my "bypass" that for you and supply the text
as well :)

"Bypassing the Web": Shell Users and Alternative
Experiences of the Internet

Joshua A. Braun

Assistant Professor of Interactive Media,
Quinnipiac University

"Since I discovered Gnus, I'm not surfing the web at
all, almost," writes Emacs user, Emanuel Berg on the
help-gnu-emacs mailing list. Emacs, which has existed
in a variety of versions and contexts since the 1970s,
is a widely used software application for viewing and
manipulating code and other text. The software can be
— and often is — used from the command line without
a mouse or graphical interface. While many software
tools are tied to the latest hardware and the release
cycle of proprietary operating systems, Emacs' long
release history and modest operating requirements
allow it to run on computers of almost any age.

And while many users employ the application
instrumentally as a tool for writing and maintaining
software, a subset of that user base "lives in" Emacs,
which has been likened to a text-based operating
system. Users of Emacs can, with a bit of
configuration, take on most of the everyday tasks
normally associated with other software, from keeping
a calendar to reading news, writing papers, chatting
online, sending email, and browsing the web, which the
program renders in plain text. As Hacker News user,
pmr_ put it, "For some people Emacs acts like
a maelstrom for everything you do on a computer."

And of course, Emacs is just one of the wide variety
of "terminal-" or "shell-based" tools with which users
operate their computers and use the Internet without
the need for a graphical interface. Emanuel goes on to
say he considers himself "text-based" and has largely
"bypassed the Web." Other similar accounts can be
easily found online of users who prefer "the warm glow
of a green screen full of text over the cold
blockiness of a graphical interface."

Users like these are likely to be highly computer
literate [now hang on - "are likely to be"???] —
server administrators and programmers, for example,
are commonly heavy shell users. And yet the version of
tech savviness they display is distinct from the
consumeroriented rhetoric around owning the new iPhone
or being skilled in the latest enterprise software.
The ecosystem of tools, or "modes" that run within
Emacs is under active development, but its progress
narrative diverges from that found in the surrounding
commodity culture. This talk would consider these
users, their experience of the Internet, and the
counternarrative they provide to the planned
obsolescence and rhetoric of constant "innovation"
that accompanies the rapid release cycle of
contemporary Internet devices and services.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Even more Gnus material: we made the paper!

[Albin Ludvig Otterhäll]

On 02/29/2016 02:07 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> He quotes me thrice

Entertaining read of an outsiders view into the "CLI culture". When did
you formulate your thoughts on the topic?

Re: Even more Gnus material: we made the paper!

[Nick Dokos]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Experiences of the Internet
>
> Joshua A. Braun
>
> Assistant Professor of Interactive Media,
> Quinnipiac University
>
> ..., Emacs' long
> release history and modest operating requirements
> allow it to run on computers of almost any age.
>

A long time ago, EMACS was (half-jokingly) supposed to stand for "Eight
Megabytes And Constantly Swapping" (particularly among the vi crowd); it
now exhibits "modest operating requirements" that allow it to run on all
kinds of clunkers. Ah, how times change...

--
Nick

Re: Even more Gnus material: we made the paper!

[Jonathan Groll]

On Mon, 29 Feb 2016 02:07:49 +0100, Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> wrote:
> And of course, Emacs is just one of the wide variety
> of "terminal-" or "shell-based" tools with which users
> operate their computers and use the Internet without
> the need for a graphical interface. Emanuel goes on to
> say he considers himself "text-based" and has largely
> "bypassed the Web." Other similar accounts can be
> easily found online of users who prefer "the warm glow
> of a green screen full of text over the cold
> blockiness of a graphical interface."

Like most of us, I do mostly have a text-based view of life although,
under X Emacs lets me view office docs, JPEGS and PDFs and surfing
with w3m under X is hardly "text-only". Then again, if we look at it
like that, there would hardly have been a point to the article and the
author wanted to get their point across!

Cheers,
Jonathan
--
jjg: Jonathan J. Groll : groll co za
has_one { :blog => "http://bloggroll.com" }

Re: Even more Gnus material: we made the paper!

[Emanuel Berg]

Albin Ludvig Otterhäll <Albin@Otterhall.com> writes:

>> He quotes me thrice
>
> Entertaining read of an outsiders view into the "CLI
> culture".

Indeed, I'm not sure how much of an "outsider" he is
tho. He might put it like that to make it more
accessible to his students and to be more on their
level. It also makes it more adventurous, like him
venturing into some hidden culture...

> When did you formulate your thoughts on the topic?

I wouldn't put it exactly like that - it is just
another post on actually this particular mailing
list/newsgroup - which by all means isn't anything to
be ashamed of...

Googling the first quote made me find this:

    https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2013-12/msg00011.html

It feels like ages ago but it is actually just

    2 years, 3 months, and 0 days

or, what should be equivalent

    2 years, 92 days

if this software is correct [1].

[1] http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/conf/emacs-init/time-my.el
    http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/.zsh/time

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Even more Gnus material: we made the paper!

[Emanuel Berg]

Nick Dokos <ndokos@gmail.com> writes:

> A long time ago, EMACS was (half-jokingly) supposed
> to stand for "Eight Megabytes And Constantly
> Swapping" (particularly among the vi crowd); it now
> exhibits "modest operating requirements" that allow
> it to run on all kinds of clunkers. Ah, how times
> change...

Even then (before the desktops and their GUIs, or when
they were at their infancy) I've heard the rest of the
software were totally fragmented and incompatible so
Emacs was already at that point the "maelstrom" which
gave leverage into the system as a whole...

Sometimes a think of it like the stone age. Imagine if
the Europeans had never left the stone age phase but
only perfected it until supreme mastery (and
insanity). It would be Easter Island only over the
entire world!

And perhaps some Emacs people are like that - at this
point at what they think a higher level (because of
perfecting rather than reinventing), but ultimately
doomed to end up in the dust bin of history...

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Even more Gnus material: we made the paper!

[Emanuel Berg]

Jonathan Groll <lists@groll.co.za> writes:

>> And of course, Emacs is just one of the wide
>> variety of "terminal-" or "shell-based" tools with
>> which users operate their computers and use the
>> Internet without the need for a graphical
>> interface. Emanuel goes on to say he considers
>> himself "text-based" and has largely "bypassed the
>> Web." Other similar accounts can be easily found
>> online of users who prefer "the warm glow of
>> a green screen full of text over the cold
>> blockiness of a graphical interface."
>
> Like most of us, I do mostly have a text-based view
> of life although, under X Emacs lets me view office
> docs, JPEGS and PDFs and surfing with w3m under X is
> hardly "text-only".

I use X as well to watch documentaries (and
"Survivor") and to see my gnuplots and the result of
my LaTeX - and, sometimes it is useful to Google the
name of a tool and see its picture before you go to
the shop.

These are just examples but they are good examples.

The idea is not to never use graphics, but rather do
that when there is reason to do so and when there is
not, instead present a uniform text display *and*
input interface.

The "cold blockiness of a graphical interface" is
a good way to put it. I also think there is the aspect
of authenticity or at least the perception of what is
real. When you look at a good looking webpage or
something else graphical the first time, it looks
great and you are impressed. But the nth time, no
matter how good it looks, your eye is so trained it
still doesn't look real. It looks artificial. And it
is! And it gets worse because to an extent you know or
can guess how: this is HTML, this is CSS, this is
JavaScript, this is...

It is too much. So I just want text - like this, if
you don't mind switching to X:

    http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/pics/text-mail.png

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Even more Gnus material: we made the paper!

[Jude DaShiell]

If I can get my graphics in ascii art especially for bar charts and 
histograms I'm a happy camper.

On Wed, 2 Mar 2016, Emanuel Berg wrote:

> Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 19:44:37
> From: Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se>
> To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: Even more Gnus material: we made the paper!
> 
> Jonathan Groll <lists@groll.co.za> writes:
>
>>> And of course, Emacs is just one of the wide
>>> variety of "terminal-" or "shell-based" tools with
>>> which users operate their computers and use the
>>> Internet without the need for a graphical
>>> interface. Emanuel goes on to say he considers
>>> himself "text-based" and has largely "bypassed the
>>> Web." Other similar accounts can be easily found
>>> online of users who prefer "the warm glow of
>>> a green screen full of text over the cold
>>> blockiness of a graphical interface."
>>
>> Like most of us, I do mostly have a text-based view
>> of life although, under X Emacs lets me view office
>> docs, JPEGS and PDFs and surfing with w3m under X is
>> hardly "text-only".
>
> I use X as well to watch documentaries (and
> "Survivor") and to see my gnuplots and the result of
> my LaTeX - and, sometimes it is useful to Google the
> name of a tool and see its picture before you go to
> the shop.
>
> These are just examples but they are good examples.
>
> The idea is not to never use graphics, but rather do
> that when there is reason to do so and when there is
> not, instead present a uniform text display *and*
> input interface.
>
> The "cold blockiness of a graphical interface" is
> a good way to put it. I also think there is the aspect
> of authenticity or at least the perception of what is
> real. When you look at a good looking webpage or
> something else graphical the first time, it looks
> great and you are impressed. But the nth time, no
> matter how good it looks, your eye is so trained it
> still doesn't look real. It looks artificial. And it
> is! And it gets worse because to an extent you know or
> can guess how: this is HTML, this is CSS, this is
> JavaScript, this is...
>
> It is too much. So I just want text - like this, if
> you don't mind switching to X:
>
>    http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/pics/text-mail.png
>
>

-- 

Re: Even more Gnus material: we made the paper!

[Emanuel Berg]

Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> writes:

> If I can get my graphics in ascii art especially for
> bar charts and histograms I'm a happy camper.

You can with gnuplot (N.B. "gnu" not as in GNU), but
IMO:

1) They don't look as good and are not as efficient to
   convey information which is their purpose.

    - and -

2) For sufficiently advanced diagrams (e.g.,
   histograms as you mention) and/or carrying too much
   data it isn't possible to do.

Here are two examples I don't think I'd do as good
with ASCII:

    http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/articles/latex/img/plots/

But if you enjoy ASCII charts, I'm a happy camper that
you are a happy camper :)

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Even more Gnus material: we made the paper!

[Emanuel Berg]

Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> writes:

> If I can get my graphics in ascii art especially for
> bar charts and histograms I'm a happy camper.

Here is a better example than the last two diagrams
I posted what gnuplot can do, and how graphics wins
over text in this case:

    http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/hs-linux/docs/report/pics/plot/1_inverted.png

But hold! I don't consider this "non-text-based": it
is just the result which isn't text. Here is the .gpi
and data files as well as the Makefile:

    http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/hs-linux/docs/report/pics/plot/

Does it look anything but text and data to you?

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Even more Gnus material: we made the paper!

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2016-02-29, at 17:48, Nick Dokos <ndokos@gmail.com> wrote:

> Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:
>
>> Experiences of the Internet
>>
>> Joshua A. Braun
>>
>> Assistant Professor of Interactive Media,
>> Quinnipiac University
>>
>> ..., Emacs' long
>> release history and modest operating requirements
>> allow it to run on computers of almost any age.
>>
>
> A long time ago, EMACS was (half-jokingly) supposed to stand for "Eight
> Megabytes And Constantly Swapping" (particularly among the vi crowd); it
> now exhibits "modest operating requirements" that allow it to run on all
> kinds of clunkers. Ah, how times change...

I remember the terrible mistake of launching flyspell on my 8MB
Pentium...  The trauma is so deep I still do not use flyspell, even
though I now have 8GB RAM...

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University