C-h w undo RET says "undo". Where is it?

C-h w undo RET says "undo". Where is it?

[Marcin Borkowski]

Hi all,

Emacs tells me that `undo' is bound to several keys.  Personally, I use
C-/ almost exlusively, but C-h w undo RET says that it's also bound to
<undo>.  Where is that key?  More precisely, can anyone show me an
example of a keyboard (preferably a modern one, not a historical
curiosity) possessing such a key?

TIA,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: C-h w undo RET says "undo". Where is it?

[tomas]

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On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 07:11:03AM +0200, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Emacs tells me that `undo' is bound to several keys.  Personally, I use
> C-/ almost exlusively, but C-h w undo RET says that it's also bound to
> <undo>.  Where is that key?

X11, at least, knows about such a thing:

    tomas@trotzki:~$ grep -i undo /usr/include/X11/keysym*
    /usr/include/X11/keysymdef.h:#define XK_Undo                          0xff65

>                             More precisely, can anyone show me an
> example of a keyboard (preferably a modern one, not a historical
> curiosity) possessing such a key?

I'm an historical curiosity myself, so I don't feel qualified to answer
that part ;-D

Cheers
 - t

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Re: C-h w undo RET says "undo". Where is it?

[Yuri Khan]

On Fri, 23 Jul 2021 at 12:11, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:

> Emacs tells me that `undo' is bound to several keys.  Personally, I use
> C-/ almost exlusively, but C-h w undo RET says that it's also bound to
> <undo>.  Where is that key?  More precisely, can anyone show me an
> example of a keyboard (preferably a modern one, not a historical
> curiosity) possessing such a key?

[Legend has it][DT] that Undo was a key on early keyboards, starting
with Xerox Star, later Xerox Docutech, Sun Type 4/5/6/7.

[DT]: https://deskthority.net/wiki/Fun_cluster

Modern mass-produced keyboards do not have an Undo key.

If you are building a custom keyboard based on TMK or [QMK] firmware,
you can turn any key into Undo by assigning the KC_UNDO key code to
it. Be aware that some modern software will ignore it even if they do
have a notion of undo and handle Ctrl+Z.

[QMK]: https://docs.qmk.fm/#/keycodes

Re: C-h w undo RET says "undo". Where is it?

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Marcin Borkowski wrote:

> Emacs tells me that `undo' is bound to several keys.
> Personally, I use C-/ almost exlusively, but C-h w undo RET
> says that it's also bound to <undo>. Where is that key?
> More precisely, can anyone show me an example of a keyboard
> (preferably a modern one, not a historical curiosity)
> possessing such a key?

For the answer, please Google Image "Sun Microsystems
Type 6 Keyboard", they have a little section of keys to the
left of the familiar keys, in all 2*5 = 10 extra keys, and the
Undo key is the second one from the top in the right column.

They were (and probably still is) everywhere at my university
who currently runs SunOS 5.10. Back then, I used them so much
I got to like them equally much, so I went to the caretakers
and they all agreed I could take 2 of them, one I gave to
a friend so I don't know what happened to that, the other
I used for a while and I did use and even program the extra
keys to do cool things - however it was actually somewhere
around then I landed at my "close-and-short" attitude, where
I never want my fingers to leave the asdf and jkl; positions,
and if they do, it shouldn't be by much and moving and finger
shouldn't require the others to move as well - anyway that's
right, that would be the opposite of the "Type 6" approach...

Now I have a gaming keyboard without every playing games.
It is the Logitech G Pro Tenkeyless and so it happened I got
to program that as well :)

https://dataswamp.org/~incal/kb/kb-full-group.conf
https://dataswamp.org/~incal/kb/kb-bright-small.conf
https://dataswamp.org/~incal/conf/.zsh/led-kb
https://dataswamp.org/~incal/ebchw/COMPUTER

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: C-h w undo RET says "undo". Where is it?

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2021-07-23, at 07:42, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 07:11:03AM +0200, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Emacs tells me that `undo' is bound to several keys.  Personally, I use
>> C-/ almost exlusively, but C-h w undo RET says that it's also bound to
>> <undo>.  Where is that key?
>
> X11, at least, knows about such a thing:
>
>     tomas@trotzki:~$ grep -i undo /usr/include/X11/keysym*
>     /usr/include/X11/keysymdef.h:#define XK_Undo                          0xff65

Well, X11 is also pretty ancient by today's standards, no?

>
>>                             More precisely, can anyone show me an
>> example of a keyboard (preferably a modern one, not a historical
>> curiosity) possessing such a key?
>
> I'm an historical curiosity myself, so I don't feel qualified to answer
> that part ;-D

:-)

Welcome to the club!

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: C-h w undo RET says "undo". Where is it?

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2021-07-23, at 07:44, Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Jul 2021 at 12:11, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:
>
>> Emacs tells me that `undo' is bound to several keys.  Personally, I use
>> C-/ almost exlusively, but C-h w undo RET says that it's also bound to
>> <undo>.  Where is that key?  More precisely, can anyone show me an
>> example of a keyboard (preferably a modern one, not a historical
>> curiosity) possessing such a key?
>
> [Legend has it][DT] that Undo was a key on early keyboards, starting
> with Xerox Star, later Xerox Docutech, Sun Type 4/5/6/7.
>
> [DT]: https://deskthority.net/wiki/Fun_cluster
>
> Modern mass-produced keyboards do not have an Undo key.
>
> If you are building a custom keyboard based on TMK or [QMK] firmware,
> you can turn any key into Undo by assigning the KC_UNDO key code to
> it. Be aware that some modern software will ignore it even if they do
> have a notion of undo and handle Ctrl+Z.
>
> [QMK]: https://docs.qmk.fm/#/keycodes

Thanks.  I _definitely_ don't want to build my own keyboard, it would be
a complete waste of time and materials, given that I have no skills for
that.  Just wanted to know something about that mythical "undo" key.

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: C-h w undo RET says "undo". Where is it?

[tomas]

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On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 09:19:48AM +0200, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> 
> On 2021-07-23, at 07:42, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 07:11:03AM +0200, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >> 
> >> Emacs tells me that `undo' is bound to several keys.  Personally, I use
> >> C-/ almost exlusively, but C-h w undo RET says that it's also bound to
> >> <undo>.  Where is that key?
> >
> > X11, at least, knows about such a thing:

[...]

> Well, X11 is also pretty ancient by today's standards, no?

X11 is about the age of a good friend of mine, whom I perceive as fresh
and full of youth :-)

Definitely younger than me, by a long shot.

> >> example of a keyboard (preferably a modern one, not a historical
> >> curiosity) possessing such a key?
> >
> > I'm an historical curiosity myself, so I don't feel qualified to answer
> > that part ;-D
> 
> :-)

Now I'm tempted to relabel that useless "Print" [1] key.

Cheers

[1] OK, German keyboard here, so it says "Druck", which sounds even worse.
   Dunno how to translate "Undo". Perhaps "Udo" will do ;-)

-- t

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Re: C-h w undo RET says "undo". Where is it?

[Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Marcin Borkowski [2021-07-25 09:19:48] wrote:

> On 2021-07-23, at 07:42, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 07:11:03AM +0200, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Emacs tells me that `undo' is bound to several keys.  Personally, I use
>>> C-/ almost exlusively, but C-h w undo RET says that it's also bound to
>>> <undo>.  Where is that key?
>>
>> X11, at least, knows about such a thing:
>>
>>     tomas@trotzki:~$ grep -i undo /usr/include/X11/keysym*
>>     /usr/include/X11/keysymdef.h:#define XK_Undo                          0xff65
>
> Well, X11 is also pretty ancient by today's standards, no?

Here's the last keyboard I remember using with an `undo` key (on the
left block):

http://xahlee.info/kbd/iold51593/Sun_Microsystems_type_7_keyboard_d5e03.jpg


-- Stefan