Xemacs

Xemacs

[John Oliver]

I set up several users with the Cygwin X server so they can export the
display of X apps to their Windows desktops.  One user, who has a
dual-boot system (Red Hat 8.0 and Windows XP) has a problem with Xemacs
in both Linux and Windows... she has the icons for things like New
Document, etc. but does not have the "word" menus along the top... you
know, File, Edit, etc.  When she first starts emacs, they're there for a
split second, and then it sort of "flashes" and the menus disappear to
leave only the icons.  Any ideas why that would be?

-- 
* John Oliver                              http://www.john-oliver.net/ *

Re: Xemacs

[B. T. Raven]

"John Oliver" <joliver@john-oliver.net> wrote in message
news:slrnetcjcj.ckb.joliver@ns.sdsitehosting.net...
> I set up several users with the Cygwin X server so they can export the
> display of X apps to their Windows desktops.  One user, who has a
> dual-boot system (Red Hat 8.0 and Windows XP) has a problem with Xemacs
> in both Linux and Windows... she has the icons for things like New
> Document, etc. but does not have the "word" menus along the top... you
> know, File, Edit, etc.  When she first starts emacs, they're there for a
> split second, and then it sort of "flashes" and the menus disappear to
> leave only the icons.  Any ideas why that would be?
>
> --
> * John Oliver                              http://www.john-oliver.net/ *

This is Emacs rather than Xemacs, but the symptom you describe is probably
common to both. It sounds like an init file is turning off this feature.
Look for something like (setq menu-bar-mode nil) in .emacs or _emacs. The
icons sound like the tool-bar (versions > 21). This can be customized
also.

Ed.

Re: Xemacs

[David Kastrup]

John Oliver <joliver@john-oliver.net> writes:

> I set up several users with the Cygwin X server so they can export
> the display of X apps to their Windows desktops.  One user, who has
> a dual-boot system (Red Hat 8.0 and Windows XP) has a problem with
> Xemacs in both Linux and Windows... she has the icons for things
> like New Document, etc. but does not have the "word" menus along the
> top... you know, File, Edit, etc.  When she first starts emacs,
> they're there for a split second, and then it sort of "flashes" and
> the menus disappear to leave only the icons.  Any ideas why that
> would be?

This sort of reminds me of an old problem with AUCTeX.  Use the XEmacs
package manager to uninstall AUCTeX.  If your user actually needs
XEmacs for editing TeX files, fetch the latest XEmacs package from the
download page of AUCTeX <URL:http://www.gnu.org/software/auctex> and
install it (it is _not_ distributed by XEmacs).

Alternatively, download a pretest version of Emacs for Windows with
AUCTeX preinstalled from that download site.  It may cause less
trouble in the long run.  In particular, it is pretty much impossible
to get a hold of a robust XEmacs capable of dealing with utf-8 in a
painless way.

Note that RedHat 8.0 is an old system: it may be worth checking the
requirements for AUCTeX with regard to XEmacs versions before trying
to update AUCTeX.  Similarly, the Cygwin XEmacs you use may be old.

I have directed followups to this posting to the group
comp.emacs.xemacs which is more appropriate since you are experiencing
an XEmacs-only problem.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: Xemacs

[John Oliver]

On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 00:22:46 -0600, B. T. Raven wrote:
> This is Emacs rather than Xemacs, but the symptom you describe is probably
> common to both. It sounds like an init file is turning off this feature.
> Look for something like (setq menu-bar-mode nil) in .emacs or _emacs. The
> icons sound like the tool-bar (versions > 21). This can be customized
> also.

That was exactly the answer!  Thanks! :-)

-- 
* John Oliver                              http://www.john-oliver.net/ *

XEmacs

[Steven Degutis]

Does anyone actually use it instead of GNU Emacs?

-Steven

Re: XEmacs

[James Freer]

I tired it once and it the splash screen flickered... but that was a
couple of years ago. I don't think it's actually being maintained now.

james

On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 8:25 PM, Steven Degutis <sbdegutis@gmail.com> wrote:
> Does anyone actually use it instead of GNU Emacs?
>
> -Steven
>

Re: XEmacs

[Glyn Millington]

James Freer <jessejazza3.uk@gmail.com> writes:

> I tired it once and it the splash screen flickered... but that was a
> couple of years ago. I don't think it's actually being maintained now.

It IS maintained (slowly!) and it has users.

atb



Glyn

Re: XEmacs

[James Freer]

My apologies. I read that somewhere recently... i did say "I don't think..."
Gnu Emacs is much better - i don't know why anyone should want to use Xemacs.

james

On Sun, 28 Apr 2013, Glyn Millington wrote:

> James Freer <jessejazza3.uk@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I tired it once and it the splash screen flickered... but that was a
>> couple of years ago. I don't think it's actually being maintained now.
>
> It IS maintained (slowly!) and it has users.
>
> atb
>
>
>
> Glyn
>
>
>

Re: XEmacs

[glyn.millington]

James Freer <jessejazza3.uk@gmail.com> writes:

> My apologies. I read that somewhere recently... i did say "I don't
> think..."  Gnu Emacs is much better - i don't know why anyone should
> want to use Xemacs.


No worries. Having used Xemacs for years I now use Emacs myself.  There
was a time when Xemacs was way ahead of Emacs but no more.  But Xemacs
still has loyal users.   

I suspect that one  reason for sticking with Xemacs now is lots of little
customizations  and tweaks which don't easily transfer to Gnu Emacs - the
same reason why I wouldn't willingly swap my init.el for yours, because
it would change the way I work.


atb 



Glyn

XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs? (was: XEmacs)

[Bastien]

glyn.millington@gmail.com writes:

> I suspect that one  reason for sticking with Xemacs now is lots of little
> customizations  and tweaks which don't easily transfer to Gnu Emacs - the
> same reason why I wouldn't willingly swap my init.el for yours, because
> it would change the way I work.

I changed the subject -- maybe this thread is an opportunity to get a
list of XEmacs features that would be nice to have in GNU Emacs.  I'm
not thinking of architectural differences, rather of small convenient
commands or options.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs?

[Christopher Schmidt]

Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:
> I changed the subject -- maybe this thread is an opportunity to get a
> list of XEmacs features that would be nice to have in GNU Emacs.

XEmacs separates core and lisp packages.  In fact, the code is even
maintained in different repositories.

    https://bitbucket.org/xemacs/

This has tremendous advantages.  I would love to see such a strict
separation in GNU Emacs.

        Christopher

Re: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs? (was: XEmacs)

[Ian van der Neut]

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Not sure if it's small, but here goes.

In vim, Sublime Text, and others (osx textmate I've been told) you can set
an option that will save the file in the current frame when it loses focus.
While googling to check if Emacs can be configured to have the same
behaviour I found that XEmacs has a 'deselect-frame-hook' that could be
used for this. From the same googling, I found that Emacs would require
something beyond a mere elisp module, but it would have to be implemented
in the core C code itself.

I would really like this option, since I am "frame oriented". I tend to
have quite a few frames open and use "focus follows mouse" which is
available in any Linux desktop. I move my mouse to a terminal window to
type 'make' or run the python/bash/what-have-you script and I would like
emacs to save at least the buffer of the frame I just left and perhaps even
all buffers (but since they wouldn't have focus anymore, they'd already
been saved anyway).

Ian.


On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote:

> glyn.millington@gmail.com writes:
>
> > I suspect that one  reason for sticking with Xemacs now is lots of little
> > customizations  and tweaks which don't easily transfer to Gnu Emacs - the
> > same reason why I wouldn't willingly swap my init.el for yours, because
> > it would change the way I work.
>
> I changed the subject -- maybe this thread is an opportunity to get a
> list of XEmacs features that would be nice to have in GNU Emacs.  I'm
> not thinking of architectural differences, rather of small convenient
> commands or options.
>
> --
>  Bastien
>
>


-- 
One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null
word.
-- Excerpt from the notebooks of Lazarus Long, from Robert Heinlein's "Time
Enough for Love"

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Re: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs? (was: XEmacs)

[Ian van der Neut]

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Well, answering my own question. While googling for the
deselect-frame-hook, I found that since I last looked, someone came up with
a solution:

http://datamaskinen.medeltiden.org/emacs-save-buffers-on-window-blur.html(dated
22 January, and last I searched was December... figures)

Just tested it. Works too.

Ian :)


On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 7:04 PM, Ian van der Neut <ivdneut@gmail.com> wrote:

> Not sure if it's small, but here goes.
>
> In vim, Sublime Text, and others (osx textmate I've been told) you can set
> an option that will save the file in the current frame when it loses focus.
> While googling to check if Emacs can be configured to have the same
> behaviour I found that XEmacs has a 'deselect-frame-hook' that could be
> used for this. From the same googling, I found that Emacs would require
> something beyond a mere elisp module, but it would have to be implemented
> in the core C code itself.
>
> I would really like this option, since I am "frame oriented". I tend to
> have quite a few frames open and use "focus follows mouse" which is
> available in any Linux desktop. I move my mouse to a terminal window to
> type 'make' or run the python/bash/what-have-you script and I would like
> emacs to save at least the buffer of the frame I just left and perhaps even
> all buffers (but since they wouldn't have focus anymore, they'd already
> been saved anyway).
>
> Ian.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote:
>
>> glyn.millington@gmail.com writes:
>>
>> > I suspect that one  reason for sticking with Xemacs now is lots of
>> little
>> > customizations  and tweaks which don't easily transfer to Gnu Emacs -
>> the
>> > same reason why I wouldn't willingly swap my init.el for yours, because
>> > it would change the way I work.
>>
>> I changed the subject -- maybe this thread is an opportunity to get a
>> list of XEmacs features that would be nice to have in GNU Emacs.  I'm
>> not thinking of architectural differences, rather of small convenient
>> commands or options.
>>
>> --
>>  Bastien
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null
> word.
> -- Excerpt from the notebooks of Lazarus Long, from Robert Heinlein's
> "Time Enough for Love"
>



-- 
One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null
word.
-- Excerpt from the notebooks of Lazarus Long, from Robert Heinlein's "Time
Enough for Love"

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Re: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs? (was: XEmacs)

[Ian van der Neut]

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On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Ian van der Neut <ivdneut@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, answering my own question. While googling for the
> deselect-frame-hook, I found that since I last looked, someone came up with
> a solution:
>
> http://datamaskinen.medeltiden.org/emacs-save-buffers-on-window-blur.html(dated 22 January, and last I searched was December... figures)
>
> Just tested it. Works too.
>

But not with emacsclient :( but perhaps there's enough hints in there to
fix that.

Ian.
-- 
One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null
word.
-- Excerpt from the notebooks of Lazarus Long, from Robert Heinlein's "Time
Enough for Love"

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Re: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs?

[Steven Degutis]

Advantages such as...?

On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Christopher Schmidt
<christopher@ch.ristopher.com> wrote:
> Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:
>> I changed the subject -- maybe this thread is an opportunity to get a
>> list of XEmacs features that would be nice to have in GNU Emacs.
>
> XEmacs separates core and lisp packages.  In fact, the code is even
> maintained in different repositories.
>
>     https://bitbucket.org/xemacs/
>
> This has tremendous advantages.  I would love to see such a strict
> separation in GNU Emacs.
>
>         Christopher
>

Re: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs?

[Bastien]

Ian van der Neut <ivdneut@gmail.com> writes:

> But not with emacsclient :( but perhaps there's enough hints in there
> to fix that.

You could use `select-frame-hook' and add a custom that saves
all buffers from all windows that are not currently active?

-- 
 Bastien

Re: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs?

[Ian van der Neut]

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On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 7:38 PM, Bastien <bzg@altern.org> wrote:

> Ian van der Neut <ivdneut@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > But not with emacsclient :( but perhaps there's enough hints in there
> > to fix that.
>
> You could use `select-frame-hook' and add a custom that saves
> all buffers from all windows that are not currently active?
>
>
(sorry, initial reply sent to Bastien only by accident)

But that wouldn't work if I move the mouse to a non-emacs window am I right?

Ian.

-- 
One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null
word.
-- Excerpt from the notebooks of Lazarus Long, from Robert Heinlein's "Time
Enough for Love"

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Re: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs?

[Dan Espen]

Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:

> glyn.millington@gmail.com writes:
>
>> I suspect that one  reason for sticking with Xemacs now is lots of little
>> customizations  and tweaks which don't easily transfer to Gnu Emacs - the
>> same reason why I wouldn't willingly swap my init.el for yours, because
>> it would change the way I work.
>
> I changed the subject -- maybe this thread is an opportunity to get a
> list of XEmacs features that would be nice to have in GNU Emacs.  I'm
> not thinking of architectural differences, rather of small convenient
> commands or options.

List of things I miss from XEmacs:

1. 3d effect for mode line

2. Easy customization for sounds:

 (setq sound-alist nil)
 (let ((default-directory (concat data-directory "sounds")))
   (load-sound-file "slap.au"      'slap 50) ;new
   (load-sound-file "drum-beep.au" 'drum)
   (load-sound-file "quiet-beep.au"        'quiet)
   (load-sound-file "bass-snap.au" 'bass 75) ;was 80
   (load-sound-file "whip.au"      'whip 50) ;was 70
   (load-sound-file "hammer.au"    'hammer 50) ;new
   (load-sound-file "yeep.au"      'yeep 50) ;was 100
   (load-sound-file "drip.au"      'drip 50) ;new
   (load-sound-file "ding.au"      'paren 50)) ;new
 (setq sound-alist
       (append 
        '((default :sound hammer) ;was bass
          (undefined-key :sound    drum)
          (undefined-click :sound drum)
          (command-error :sound bass)
          (no-completion :sound    drip) ;was whip
          (y-or-n-p        :sound  slap) ;was quiet
          (yes-or-no-p :sound      yeep) ;was quiet
          (isearch-failed :sound drum :volume 70) ;was quiet
          (isearch-quit :sound     yeep) ;was quiet
          (auto-save-error :sound whip :volume 75)) ;was vol 100
        sound-alist)))

For me not even close to a reason to stay with XEmacs.

-- 
Dan Espen

Re: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs?

[Bastien]

Hi Ivan,

Ian van der Neut <ivdneut@gmail.com> writes:

> But that wouldn't work if I move the mouse to a non-emacs window am I
> right?

Right.  Then we'd better off with an idle timer that save window
buffers when no window is currently active?

-- 
 Bastien

Re: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs?

[Bastien]

Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> writes:

> For me not even close to a reason to stay with XEmacs.

Yep.  I forgot to say I'm more interested in those features
that make people stay with XEmacs :)

-- 
 Bastien

Re: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs?

[Alan Mackenzie]

Christopher Schmidt <christopher@ch.ristopher.com> wrote:
> Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:
>> I changed the subject -- maybe this thread is an opportunity to get a
>> list of XEmacs features that would be nice to have in GNU Emacs.

> XEmacs separates core and lisp packages.  In fact, the code is even
> maintained in different repositories.

>    https://bitbucket.org/xemacs/

> This has tremendous advantages.  I would love to see such a strict
> separation in GNU Emacs.

This may have advantages.  It also has disadvantages.  It is much more
difficult to set up than Emacs's simplicity.  For example, during
installation, the user must edit the make file to say where the packages
are going to live.  For developers, the source and installed versions of
the packages are rigidly separated, making testing more awkward.

>        Christopher

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

Re: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs?

[Tassilo Horn]

Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> writes:

> List of things I miss from XEmacs:
>
> 1. 3d effect for mode line

Isn't that the Box attribute applicable to all Emacs face, not just
mode-line?

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs?

[Dan Espen]

Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

> Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> writes:
>
>> List of things I miss from XEmacs:
>>
>> 1. 3d effect for mode line
>
> Isn't that the Box attribute applicable to all Emacs face, not just
> mode-line?

It might be if I could figure out the syntax for set-face-attribute...

-- 
Dan Espen

RE: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs?

[Drew Adams]

> > Isn't that the Box attribute applicable to all Emacs face, not just
> > mode-line?
> 
> It might be if I could figure out the syntax for set-face-attribute...

You don't need to.

M-x customize-face RET mode-line RET

Look at and play with `Box around text', in particular its `Style' and `Width'
settings when value `Box' is used.  `Width' is what gives you a greater or
smaller 3D effect.

Customize shows you the effect of your changes as soon as you choose `State' >
`Set for current session'.  Fiddle and set, fiddle and set.

Much easier than trying to parse the `set-face-attribute' doc or code and then
experiment with Lisp sexps.  And if you then want to see what the corresponding
Lisp looks like for the option value, choose `State' > `Show Lisp Expression'.

IMHO, too many people think that not using Customize somehow makes them heavy
Lispers, and that using Customize somehow makes them Emacs wimps or newbies.

This not to argue that the Customize UI is wonderful or particularly appealing
(ugh!).  The point is that it is your friend, and a wise Lisper takes advantage
of it.

Re: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs?

[Dan Espen]

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

>> > Isn't that the Box attribute applicable to all Emacs face, not just
>> > mode-line?
>> 
>> It might be if I could figure out the syntax for set-face-attribute...
>
> You don't need to.
>
> M-x customize-face RET mode-line RET
>
> Look at and play with `Box around text', in particular its `Style' and `Width'
> settings when value `Box' is used.  `Width' is what gives you a greater or
> smaller 3D effect.
>
> Customize shows you the effect of your changes as soon as you choose `State' >
> `Set for current session'.  Fiddle and set, fiddle and set.
>
> Much easier than trying to parse the `set-face-attribute' doc or code and then
> experiment with Lisp sexps.  And if you then want to see what the corresponding
> Lisp looks like for the option value, choose `State' > `Show Lisp Expression'.
>
> IMHO, too many people think that not using Customize somehow makes them heavy
> Lispers, and that using Customize somehow makes them Emacs wimps or newbies.
>
> This not to argue that the Customize UI is wonderful or particularly appealing
> (ugh!).  The point is that it is your friend, and a wise Lisper takes advantage
> of it.

My problem with customize is finding what I want.
Given customize-face then mode-line I'm good.
Starting thru the menubar, I get totally lost.

Anyway, Emacs wins again!

Emacs is now sporting XEmacs style 3d mode lines and life is good.

Not sure if I'll apply this to inactive mode lines, maybe they should be
sunken or just flat like they are by default.

Thanks!

-- 
Dan Espen

Re: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs?

[Glenn Morris]

Bastien wrote:

> I forgot to say I'm more interested in those features that make people
> stay with XEmacs :)

The people who could answer that are presumably not reading
help-gnu-emacs (a mailing list specifically for GNU Emacs).

Re: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs?

[Dan Espen]

Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes:

> Bastien wrote:
>
>> I forgot to say I'm more interested in those features that make people
>> stay with XEmacs :)
>
> The people who could answer that are presumably not reading
> help-gnu-emacs (a mailing list specifically for GNU Emacs).

Yep, what we have here are reformed XEmacs users.

Actually, I used Emacs for many years.
Jumped to XEmacs when Emacs sunk into a funk and JWZ brought his
considerable talents to bear, then jumped back when Emacs caught up
and surpassed XEmacs.

I don't think we're going to see a lot of reasons to use XEmacs.
I suggested 2 and got my list pared down to 1.

-- 
Dan Espen

RE: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs?

[Drew Adams]

> My problem with customize is finding what I want.
> Given customize-face then mode-line I'm good.
> Starting thru the menubar, I get totally lost.

Good point.  Customize is not much of a browser.

To find things in Customize I take advantage of Icicles.  But you can get almost
as much help in this case from `M-x customize-apropos-faces RET mode-line RET'.

Re: XEmacs

["Jérôme M. Berger"]

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glyn.millington@gmail.com wrote:
> James Freer <jessejazza3.uk@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> My apologies. I read that somewhere recently... i did say "I don't
>> think..."  Gnu Emacs is much better - i don't know why anyone should
>> want to use Xemacs.
> 
> 
> No worries. Having used Xemacs for years I now use Emacs myself.  There
> was a time when Xemacs was way ahead of Emacs but no more.  But Xemacs
> still has loyal users.   
> 
> I suspect that one  reason for sticking with Xemacs now is lots of little
> customizations  and tweaks which don't easily transfer to Gnu Emacs - the
> same reason why I wouldn't willingly swap my init.el for yours, because
> it would change the way I work.
> 
	Horizontal scroll bars and a working imenu [1]...

		Jerome

[1] http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=10706
-- 
mailto:jeberger@free.fr
http://jeberger.free.fr
Jabber: jeberger@jabber.fr


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Re: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs?

[Christopher Schmidt]

Steven Degutis <sbdegutis@gmail.com> writes:

> Advantages such as...?

To me, being an ordinary Emacs user, the most striking advantage is the
separation of release cycles.

GNU Emacs is a vivid ecosystem of different packages.  The release
distribution is a static snapshot.

This is not exactly problematic to all these lisp packages which are
mature and do not change much any more.  It is problematic to those
packages which still undergo development.  Consider Org-Mode, for
example.  One is pretty much on its own in terms of community support
and specific bug fixes if one uses the distribution bundled with GNU
Emacs.

Separate release cycles of core and packages and release new versions of
packages when they are considered mature and stable - not when another
core release of Emacs accidentally happens.

This does not necessarily imply any user visible changes or massive
changes to the development infrastructure.  For starters, use the
package.el magic to generate packages from the lisp/-tree at build-time.
Create an ELPA branch which distributes emergency bug/security fixes and
major releases of packages such as Gnus, Org-Mode or CEDET on top (!) of
the regular distribution in the release tarball.

Stephen wrote a retrospective assessment of XEmacs modularization here:

    http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/151146


I have been thinking about this idea for some time now.  I really like
it.  I am convinced that this is a win for both users and developers.
Are there any notable disadvantages?

        Christopher

Re: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs?

[rusi]

On Apr 30, 11:48 pm, Glenn Morris <r...@gnu.org> wrote:
> Bastien wrote:
> > I forgot to say I'm more interested in those features that make people
> > stay with XEmacs :)
>
> The people who could answer that are presumably not reading
> help-gnu-emacs (a mailing list specifically for GNU Emacs).

APlus mode only works with Xemacs not gnu-emacs.
I had put up some of my hacks for making it work in gnu-emacs
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AplInDebian…

Have little idea if its been of any use.

The correct way to do it is to make a specific latin-like encoding for
Aplus.
I looked at the code but was a bit out of depth with the unicode stuff

Re: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs?

[Stefan Monnier]

> Emacs is now sporting XEmacs style 3d mode lines and life is good.

"now" as in "since Emacs-21"?


        Stefan

Re: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs?

[Dan Espen]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>> Emacs is now sporting XEmacs style 3d mode lines and life is good.
>
> "now" as in "since Emacs-21"?

24.1.1.1

For me, "now" was right then at my computer.

-- 
Dan Espen

Re: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs?

[J. David Boyd]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>> Emacs is now sporting XEmacs style 3d mode lines and life is good.
>
> "now" as in "since Emacs-21"?
>
>
>         Stefan


I 'thought' we had 3d mode lines, glad to know my eyes aren't crazy....

RE: XEmacs feature missing in GNU Emacs?

[Drew Adams]

> >> Emacs is now sporting XEmacs style 3d mode lines and life is good.
> > since Emacs-21
>
> I 'thought' we had 3d mode lines, glad to know my eyes aren't 
> crazy....

Yes, and if you look the right way at the mode line, a SIRDS T. rex or two will
pop out at you.  Quite a popular feature back in the 90s.

Re: XEmacs

[unfrostedpoptart]

On Friday, May 10, 2013 3:38:02 AM UTC-7, Hilary wrote:
> On 28/04/13 23:28, James Freer wrote:
> 
> > My apologies. I read that somewhere recently... i did say "I don't think..."
> > Gnu Emacs is much better - i don't know why anyone should want to use
> > Xemacs.
> I used Xemacs for a while a few years ago because at that time, on a 
> slow windoze box, it was significantly snappier and more stable then GNU 
> Emacs. GNU Emacs caught up and overtook Xemacs, even before I acquired 
> faster hardware and switched to Linux.

I've been using emacs since 18.57 / 1988.  I switched to Lucid and then xemacs for many years but switched to gnu almost 2 years ago (Linux, Mac, Win).  The support/development of xemacs has pretty much dried up and many of the packages I wanted to use no longer are compatible with xemacs.  It didn't take long to convert all my customizations and it's been great.  Many computer-intensive operations (e.g. re-indenting large files) are at least an order of magnitude faster!

Re: XEmacs

[Emanuel Berg]

Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> writes:

> One of the last things I did with Emacs on my last windoze box was
> configure gnus, but I didn't have the time, patience, or brainflops
> to set it up as well as I can with a few clicks in Iceweasel, so
> Iceweasel it still is for news and mail.

I've spent some time configuring Gnus. Mostly it is about looks. You
can see a screenshot how far I've come here:

http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/pics/usenet.png

Now, that dump is from a tabbed urxvt, so it doesn't look exactly like
that in the console (for example, there is no underline), but I had to
make a short guest appearance in X as to be able to use scrot to take
a screenshot. They look more or less the same, anyway.

What I've used so far, Gnus is great!
-- 
Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below)
computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573

Re: XEmacs

[Hils]

On 12/05/13 22:29, Emanuel Berg wrote:
> Hils<hils@saynotospam.net>  writes:
>
>> One of the last things I did with Emacs on my last windoze box was
>> configure gnus, but I didn't have the time, patience, or brainflops
>> to set it up as well as I can with a few clicks in Iceweasel, so
>> Iceweasel it still is for news and mail.
>
> I've spent some time configuring Gnus. Mostly it is about looks. You
> can see a screenshot how far I've come here:
>
> http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/pics/usenet.png
>
> Now, that dump is from a tabbed urxvt, so it doesn't look exactly like
> that in the console (for example, there is no underline), but I had to
> make a short guest appearance in X as to be able to use scrot to take
> a screenshot. They look more or less the same, anyway.
>
> What I've used so far, Gnus is great!

That looks really cool. One of the things which bothered me about Gnus 
was its determination to delete and ignore every article which had been 
read. Is there a way to make it keep local copies of everything for n 
days, and keep (or archive) specified articles?

Re: XEmacs

[Emanuel Berg]

Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> writes:

> That looks really cool. One of the things which bothered me about
> Gnus was its determination to delete and ignore every article which
> had been read. Is there a way to make it keep local copies of
> everything for n days, and keep (or archive) specified articles?

In the beginning of my Gnus days, I thought it was strange too, but I
got used to it, and actually found it to be for the good, because it
got me more focused: either I decide to read something, and then I do
it, or I don't.

How to archive for a fixed time, while not a bad idea, I don't know,
but as for saving articles, there are tons of ways, perhaps too
many. Check out:

http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Saving-Articles
.html#Saving-Articles

The great thing with Gnus as I see it is 1) you configure it, and
write Lisp stuff, in the way you are so used to from Emacs (it's a
head start), 2) the finger habits (muscle memory) of editing, killing,
yanking, etc., are (obviously) those known from Emacs, and 3) the
integration with everything else: for example, if I'm asking a
question on programming in some newsgroup, I can just switch buffer to
the source code, `kill-ring-save' some function that won't work, yank
it into the post, and send it.

-- 
Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below)
computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573

Re: XEmacs

[Glyn Millington]

Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> writes:

> On 12/05/13 22:29, Emanuel Berg wrote:
>> Hils<hils@saynotospam.net> writes:
>>
>>> One of the last things I did with Emacs on my last windoze box was
>>> configure gnus, but I didn't have the time, patience, or brainflops
>>> to set it up as well as I can with a few clicks in Iceweasel, so
>>> Iceweasel it still is for news and mail.
>> I've spent some time configuring Gnus. Mostly it is about looks. You
>> can see a screenshot how far I've come here:
>> http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/pics/usenet.png
>> Now, that dump is from a tabbed urxvt, so it doesn't look exactly
>> like that in the console (for example, there is no underline), but I
>> had to make a short guest appearance in X as to be able to use scrot
>> to take a screenshot. They look more or less the same, anyway.
>> What I've used so far, Gnus is great!
>
> That looks really cool. One of the things which bothered me about Gnus
> was its determination to delete and ignore every article which had
> been read. Is there a way to make it keep local copies of everything
> for n days, 


With Gnus there is always a way :-) 

Note first that Gnus hides read articles by default but they are still
there until they are _expired_.  

See here

http://www.gnus.org/manual/gnus_187.html#SEC187   and especially the
sentences

,----
| If you do not mark an article as expirable, it will remain on your system
| until hell freezes over. This bears repeating one more time, with some
| spurious capitalizations: IF you do NOT mark articles as EXPIRABLE, Gnus
| will NEVER delete those ARTICLES.
`----

So they can be read again simply by entering the group with 

C-u SPC.


Now - how to automate expiry? That man page gives you all the gory
details but as an example I have the following in my .gnus


;; marks mail as expirable once read - VITAL NB this is TOTAL expiry
(setq gnus-total-expirable-newsgroups

"ANDREW\\|CENTRAL\\|CHRISTOPHER\\|CLAIRE\\|MCASLAN\\|DIARY\\|LICC\\|OTHER\\|
.... the real list is much longer but you get the idea")



And you can even specify how long mail hangs around in a particular
group, as below.




;; PER GROUP MAIL EXPIRY - neat!
;; NB the #' before lambda group is essential - not there in manual!!
(setq nnmail-expiry-wait-function
      #'(lambda (group)
       (cond  ((string= group "CHRISTOPHER") 10)
             ((string= group "SYNOD") 10)
             ((string= group "FREEBSD") 3)
	     ((string= group "CENTRAL") 10)
	      ((string= group "OTHER") 1)
              ((string= group "SYSTEM") 1)
	      ((string= group "spam") 'immediate)
             (t
               3))))

Hope that helps!


atb


Glyn

Re: XEmacs

[Luca Ferrari]

On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 8:17 AM,  <glyn.millington@gmail.com> wrote:

> No worries. Having used Xemacs for years I now use Emacs myself.  There
> was a time when Xemacs was way ahead of Emacs but no more.  But Xemacs
> still has loyal users.
>
> I suspect that one  reason for sticking with Xemacs now is lots of little
> customizations  and tweaks which don't easily transfer to Gnu Emacs - the
> same reason why I wouldn't willingly swap my init.el for yours, because
> it would change the way I work.
>

I was thinking XEmacs was died too, glad to see it is the opposite.
I've tried XEmacs a couple of times, when forced to run on a Windows
box, since it was a little faster and shipped with nice gadgets, but I
switch back to Emacs as soon as I was able to get a Unix desktop, and
then I never used XEmacs anymore.
As others, I feel that today Emacs has catched up XEmacs and is much
more superior, so I don't see myself switching to XEmacs again in the
near future.

Luca

Re: XEmacs

[Cecil Westerhof]

Op zondag 12 mei 2013 18:58 CEST schreef hils@saynotospam.net:

> On 11/05/13 20:08, unfrostedpoptart wrote:
>> I've been using emacs since 18.57 / 1988.
>
> That was around the time that I started using MicroEmacs, in a port
> to the Sinclair QL, where (with some OS hacks) it would multitask
> nicely with other programs. It was by far the best all-purpose
> editor even then. I may still have a screenshot somewhere of it
> running on the QL's 512x256 4-colour display.

If you could post it, I would appreciate it. I worked with a QL also.
I found it a magnificent computer. (I started with a ZX Spectrum.)

-- 
Cecil Westerhof
Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof

Re: XEmacs

[Emanuel Berg]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/pics/usenet.png
>
> Now, that dump is from a tabbed urxvt, so it doesn't look exactly
> like that in the console (for example, there is no underline), but I
> had to make a short guest appearance in X as to be able to use scrot
> to take a screenshot. They look more or less the same, anyway.

I just found an incredible tool that can be invoked from Emacs (as any
shell command), and be used to take screenshots of Emacs (and anything
else) running in the console. It is called fbgrab, and is used like
this: `fbgrab dump.png' (I guess "fb" is for "frame buffer"). The tool
is (at least) in my Debian "sid" repositories, and it worked without
the slightest of tweak. Check out the URL above, which is the same as
earlier, only I changed the dump.

-- 
Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below)
computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573