From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: member returns list Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 02:20:57 +0200 Organization: Informatimago Message-ID: <87mvwr41au.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> References: <87bndfauey.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87wpw0e58f.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> <87si6n822t.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87oaha9a64.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87twr1pycd.fsf@debian.uxu> <87zj0s5yc8.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87r3m45r7a.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87a8ss5ffj.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1442103926 11118 80.91.229.3 (13 Sep 2015 00:25:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 00:25:26 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 13 02:25:21 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Zav6e-0001Ne-Jn for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 02:25:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34131 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zav6e-00016V-08 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2015 20:25:20 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 51 Original-X-Trace: individual.net LvOM8+uoCH902Ej3+8rpZQvYCxSrXrAS8rWP6Ak4Dp/0IAz2kw Cancel-Lock: sha1:NmMzYjg0ODc5MGU0NDgwNTVlNmNhZTg0NzUyNDEzYWIwMjg2OGE4YQ== sha1:Ol+m4aQ0z/xv2qwgAJJg0y/6qhw= Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAQMAAABtzGvEAAAABlBMVEUAAAD///+l2Z/dAAAA oElEQVR4nK3OsRHCMAwF0O8YQufUNIQRGIAja9CxSA55AxZgFO4coMgYrEDDQZWPIlNAjwq9 033pbOBPtbXuB6PKNBn5gZkhGa86Z4x2wE67O+06WxGD/HCOGR0deY3f9Ijwwt7rNGNf6Oac l/GuZTF1wFGKiYYHKSFAkjIo1b6sCYS1sVmFhhhahKQssRjRT90ITWUk6vvK3RsPGs+M1RuR mV+hO/VvFAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Accept-Language: fr, es, en User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:214901 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:107186 Archived-At: Emanuel Berg writes: > "Pascal J. Bourguignon" > writes: > >>>> Also, I didn't show the transitivities, but: No >>>> Smalltalk -> no Objective-C -> no NeXTSTEP No Lisp >>>> -> no Interface Builder -> no NeXTSTEP No NeXTSTEP >>>> -> no MacOSX -> no iOS -> no iPad/iPhone. >>>> >>> If I ever get my time machine going, first thing >>> after spending a decade in the 90s' Ibiza listening >>> to eurodisco and dropping E, remind me to go back >>> to 1969 and terminate Alan Kay. Or better yet, >>> I can just bring an iPhone and he'll probably grab >>> for the revolver himself! >> >> You are definitely crazy. > > My people were once travellers and warriors. In yet > another era, we had an industrial capacity in parity > with the superpowers, and a super-educated workforce. > Now, people don't know jack about anything and they > don't even know what goes on half a meter to their > sides as they are enslaved by those one million times > accursed iThings. Physically and mentally those have > been a disaster to millions all over the world. > What Lisp has to do with them is beyond me as Lisp is > the most advanced programming language which implies > limitless creativity, whereas the iThings are very > dangerous toys that have already enslaved millions of > supposedly "adults" as well. Whenever I encounter old > people I see this very clearly - the difference in > posture, knowledge, skill, literacy, awareness, > self-confidence - it is just huge. Of course, there > were no iThings in their youths and adult lives so > they hade to take part in real activity, solve real > problems, communicate with real people, develop real > skills, and so on - every day. The people today who > never did any of that - well, it shows! You are very ill-informed, you don't know what Alan Kay thinks of iPads and iPhones. I can't find the exact quote, so I can only advise you to watch all these videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKuVC3Lrr0b8k5UY402FfM2LuZ8Ecti96 -- __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/ “The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment.” -- Carl Bass CEO Autodesk