From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tomas Hlavaty Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Advantage using mapc over dolist Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2024 08:36:49 +0100 Message-ID: <87mshdrze6.fsf@neko.mail-host-address-is-not-set> References: <87zflevbwm.fsf@neko.mail-host-address-is-not-set> <87frn5lswe.fsf@neko.mail-host-address-is-not-set> <875xo1lr1q.fsf@neko.mail-host-address-is-not-set> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10233"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Jean Louis Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 03 08:37:45 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tINTc-0002UE-SL for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 03 Dec 2024 08:37:44 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tINSy-0004f8-BD; Tue, 03 Dec 2024 02:37:04 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tINSw-0004ee-EQ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Dec 2024 02:37:02 -0500 Original-Received: from logand.com ([37.48.87.44]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tINSu-0002OU-LP for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Dec 2024 02:37:02 -0500 Original-Received: by logand.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 943DE1A036A; Tue, 3 Dec 2024 08:36:50 +0100 (CET) X-Mailer: emacs 29.4 (via feedmail 11-beta-1 I) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=37.48.87.44; envelope-from=tom@logand.com; helo=logand.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:148526 Archived-At: On Tue 03 Dec 2024 at 09:13, Jean Louis wrote: > * Tomas Hlavaty [2024-12-03 00:21]: >> On Mon 02 Dec 2024 at 23:50, Jean Louis wrote: >> >> hmm, somebody renamed it to cl-ecase and cl-case >> >> similar to flet -> cl-flet and labels -> cl-labels >> >> what a shame >> > >> > I find it liberating. >>=20 >> What do you mean? >> Could you explain that? >>=20 >> Emacs is switching to lexical scope and degraded two of the most lexical >> scope related things to secodary citizens. > > I am an Emacs Lisp programmer, and all Common Lisp functions prefixed wit= h `cl-` I find liberating in the sense that personally within Emacs Lisp I = do not like mixing it because it is not Common Lisp. All my software was fi= rst in Common Lisp, I know it and use it every day, I am a heavy user of my= own Common Lisp. But within Emacs, I like using Emacs Lisp pure=E2=80=94it= is a personal choice. I do not understand this explanation. It feels like renaming car and cdr because it feels liberating. Beginners have been nagging about this for maybe 60 years already. iirc flet, labels, case, ecase predate Common Lisp and were present in ancient Emacs Lisp too (but I am not a Lisp historian). Moving to lexical scoping and at the same time incompatibly renaming those fundamental lisp forms seems silly to me. They do not even have keyword arglist. Anytime I process complex data recursively, I reach for labels. There does not seem to be an alternative, does it? That means infecting my code with cl-lib silliness. And how infecting Emacs with pcase monstrosity feels liberating compared to simple case and ecase?