* Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... [not found] <mailman.7404.1203000382.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2008-02-14 22:49 ` Sam Peterson 2008-02-15 8:04 ` Tassilo Horn 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Sam Peterson @ 2008-02-14 22:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Don Saklad <dsaklad@gnu.org> on Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:58:37 -0500 didst step forth and proclaim thus: > For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of > experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... on > fencepost.gnu.org Gnus is one of those Emacs applications that requires extensive juggling of elisp. It's awesome, I use it, but if you really want its benefits, you're forced to deal with its complexity. The best suggestion is to work with somebody else's ~/.gnus and work with that until it turns into something that you find usable. -- Sam Peterson skpeterson At nospam ucdavis.edu "if programmers were paid to remove code instead of adding it, software would be much better" -- unknown ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... 2008-02-14 22:49 ` For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email? Sam Peterson @ 2008-02-15 8:04 ` Tassilo Horn 0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Tassilo Horn @ 2008-02-15 8:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Sam Peterson <skpeterson@nospam.please.ucdavis.edu> writes: Hi Sam, > The best suggestion is to work with somebody else's ~/.gnus and work > with that until it turns into something that you find usable. Oh, I hope Reiner won't see that. ;-) The usual advice to newbies is: "Don't use code you find on the net, and don't fiddle with things you're not sure about! Read the manual and ask on the relevant newsgroups instead." Bye, Tassilo ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... @ 2008-02-16 19:01 Don Saklad 2008-02-16 23:40 ` Bastien Guerry 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Don Saklad @ 2008-02-16 19:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs, dsaklad Thank you Bastien ! For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... on fencepost.gnu.org > This minimal Gnus configuration file might help you here: http://www.cognition.ens.fr/~guerry/u/gnus-minimal.el > Bastien For users not programmers with sketchier experience than a smattering, how might they setup gnus for reading email ?... ...the problematical question about discovering ways for introducing novices to the delights of gnus for believers in reductive simplifying of even the most complex things! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... 2008-02-16 19:01 Don Saklad @ 2008-02-16 23:40 ` Bastien Guerry 2008-02-17 13:04 ` Don Saklad 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Bastien Guerry @ 2008-02-16 23:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Don Saklad; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs Don Saklad <dsaklad@gnu.org> writes: > Thank you Bastien ! So, did it help? > ...the problematical question about discovering ways for introducing > novices to the delights of gnus for believers in reductive simplifying > of even the most complex things! Even non-programmer should be opened the doors of Gnus. And read the manual. It's always worth the time you spend on it. -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... 2008-02-16 23:40 ` Bastien Guerry @ 2008-02-17 13:04 ` Don Saklad 2008-02-17 23:03 ` Mike Mattie [not found] ` <mailman.7537.1203289460.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Don Saklad @ 2008-02-17 13:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs, dsaklad > So, did it help? Yup, it did. Well, here, to get gnus going for email it's between dealing with symptoms like dyslexia and ADD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention-Deficit_Hyperactivity_Disorder Complexity can be interesting, greater usability can take into account nonprogrammer users having difficulties with manual texts whether it's the writing of the text or limitations of the users attempting to interpret the manual texts. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... 2008-02-17 13:04 ` Don Saklad @ 2008-02-17 23:03 ` Mike Mattie [not found] ` <mailman.7537.1203289460.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Mike Mattie @ 2008-02-17 23:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5149 bytes --] On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 08:04:53 -0500 Don Saklad <dsaklad@gnu.org> wrote: > > So, did it help? > > Yup, it did. > > Well, here, to get gnus going for email it's between > dealing with symptoms like dyslexia and ADD > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention-Deficit_Hyperactivity_Disorder I don't know much about dyslexia, but Emacs can be setup to reduce the impact ADD symptoms, unfortunately it requires a little bit of Emacs sophistication. 1. Emacs Emacs is a ADD happy place. Many of the Emacs developers and users place a extremely high value on a interface that does not distract. It also rarely creates new frames (windows) which is a *huge* bonus. You can rely on the principle that any distracting Emacs feature will have an off switch. You can turn off most of the menus and fullscreen Emacs. The buffer management is nearly ideal for ADD since the buffers are not visible in any way unless you go looking for them. If you learn how to use the Emacs command interface (alt-x) it can be a benefit and a risk. You can get things done in the editor by typing commands without alot of interface being presented at you. Even more importantly the command interface does not linger or grow like cancer across your screen as pop-up menus do. The risk is that there is so many interesting functions, and so many ways to do something, that you can get stuck in a recursive "better way" or "exploration" loop for a while. No cure for that, it's the fun part of Emacs. 2. Desktop The typical desktop designed around multi-tasking can be crippling. Every window and desktop gizmo unrelated to your current task is lethal to your focus. A window manager that allows you to create workspaces you can switch between is a huge help. I put coding in one, communications in another, and leave another workspace for misc programs that are allowed to clutter up the workspace with windows. The major programs that I use such as Emacs,Firefox, and a mail client are *always* full screened. I change my task focus by changing workspaces, and I cycle applications within a task group only when necessary. A setup like this can give you a fighting chance to discipline yourself to stay on task. If you want to use Gnus and keep this task separation you can create a frame for gnus in a communications workspace, and a primary Emacs frame in your work workspace. > Complexity can be interesting, greater usability can take > into account nonprogrammer users having difficulties with > manual texts whether it's the writing of the text or > limitations of the users attempting to interpret the manual > texts. > > If you have difficulty reading text you definitely are going to have a rough time. You might be able to setup EmacsSpeak, which converts text to speech. You might be able to get it to read the manuals to you. Anything as complex as a computer is going to have alot of RTFM involved so it would likely be worth the investment to get it working well in at least one application. On a more general note I would say the MS Windows interface ideas are a un-mitigated disaster for ADD. Everything pops up a new window, everything blinks, flashes, and in general it looks like the circus is running your desktop. The interface is multi-tasking centric which is lethal, and the apps are advertising/brand centric which means they will do anything to steal and stay in your attention. The Mac interface is very balanced, the dashboard is really helpful because it disappears. Unfortunately I haven't figured out how to switch window managers yet. The mac interface is smarter but it's still hard to get rid of all the desktop icons (lethal distraction), and diet the menus. Linux is the best since you can create an ideal environment with some programming skills. It will likely require a significant investment in time and effort to learn if you have not already. I think ubuntu is lowering the bar considerably - it may be an option. The web is the seventh ring of hell for ADD. Add-block plus is a minimum, and if you can tolerate noscript it will get rid of almost all the visual blitzkrieg that assaults you when pages load. I am fortunate that the most useful programming sights are still "old web". Whatever you do, you are likely on your own as far as modern computers are concerned. A truly distraction free environment is a advertising/branding free environment for the most part, and multi-tasking is out of the question. The market forces won't be catering to you any time soon. Every once in a while for my own amusement I propose interface changes that make software easily dismissed from the user's attention. If they actually think about it instead of laughing outright it can be amusing to watch a MBA's brain malfunction for a while. You will have to roll up your sleeves and cater to your own needs AFAICS. Luckily modern programs are getting alot easier to modify, and Emacs is the king of user modification. Cheers, Mike Mattie [-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
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* Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... [not found] ` <mailman.7537.1203289460.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2008-03-16 1:21 ` David Combs 0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: David Combs @ 2008-03-16 1:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Myself, I do not use gnus. I don't even know its benefits. What I do use is TRN4, and I can't imagine what features or whatever I'd want to make it better. Nor can I imagine a better newsreader. Please, is there someone there who has used trn4 more than once or twice? If so, could that person tell me why gnus is so superior? That'd be really nice. And for mail I use mutt. Works for me. What's nice about each is they don't require a windowing and mouse system, but need only essentially what vi needs. (emacs is of course wonderful indeed. I, like probably everyone else here, "live in" emacs, hardly having to ^Z or go to some other window (emacs-term: frame) dtterm. Heck, I'll keep up an emacs for a *long* time. But still, it's trn4 and mutt for me -- so far). Thanks! David ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... @ 2008-02-14 13:58 Don Saklad 2008-02-14 18:24 ` Eric Hanchrow ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Don Saklad @ 2008-02-14 13:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs, dsaklad For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... on fencepost.gnu.org ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... 2008-02-14 13:58 Don Saklad @ 2008-02-14 18:24 ` Eric Hanchrow [not found] ` <mailman.7410.1203014298.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2008-02-14 20:17 ` Bastien Guerry 2 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Eric Hanchrow @ 2008-02-14 18:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs >>>>> "Don" == Don Saklad <dsaklad@gnu.org> writes: Don> For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering Don> of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... Seriously: I'd find some other mail reader. Gnus is incredibly complex. -- If you're trying to choose between two theories and one gives you an excuse for being lazy, the other one is probably right. -- Paul Graham ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
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* Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... [not found] ` <mailman.7410.1203014298.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2008-02-14 19:05 ` Joel J. Adamson 0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Joel J. Adamson @ 2008-02-14 19:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Eric Hanchrow <offby1@blarg.net> writes: >>>>>> "Don" == Don Saklad <dsaklad@gnu.org> writes: > > Don> For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering > Don> of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... > > Seriously: I'd find some other mail reader. Gnus is incredibly complex. It's also incredibly awesome. My suggestion: become a programmer; until then you will be a victim. Joel -- Joel J. Adamson Biostatistician Pediatric Psychopharmacology Research Unit Massachusetts General Hospital Boston, MA 02114 (617) 643-1432 (303) 880-3109 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... 2008-02-14 13:58 Don Saklad 2008-02-14 18:24 ` Eric Hanchrow [not found] ` <mailman.7410.1203014298.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2008-02-14 20:17 ` Bastien Guerry 2008-02-14 21:46 ` Reiner Steib 2 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Bastien Guerry @ 2008-02-14 20:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Don Saklad; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs Don Saklad <dsaklad@gnu.org> writes: > For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of > experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... on > fencepost.gnu.org This minimal Gnus configuration file might help you here: http://www.cognition.ens.fr/~guerry/u/gnus-minimal.el -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... 2008-02-14 20:17 ` Bastien Guerry @ 2008-02-14 21:46 ` Reiner Steib 2008-02-15 2:44 ` Bastien 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Reiner Steib @ 2008-02-14 21:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs On Thu, Feb 14 2008, Bastien Guerry wrote: > This minimal Gnus configuration file might help you here: I wouldn't call it "minimal Gnus configuration file". Some settings there are already the default, not required or just a matter of taste. ,----[ (info "(gnus)Starting Up") ] | If your system administrator has set things up properly, starting | Gnus and reading news is extremely easy--you just type `M-x gnus' in | your Emacs. If not, you should customize the variable | `gnus-select-method' as described in *Note Finding the News::. For a | minimal setup for posting should also customize the variables | `user-full-name' and `user-mail-address'. `---- For mail, you need to set up `gnus-secondary-select-methods' as described in... ,----[ (info "(gnus)Getting Started Reading Mail") ] | For instance, if you want to use `nnml' (which is a "one file per | mail" back end), you could put the following in your `~/.gnus.el' file: | | (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml ""))) | | Now, the next time you start Gnus, this back end will be queried for | new articles, and it will move all the messages in your spool file to | its directory, which is `~/Mail/' by default. The new group that will | be created (`mail.misc') will be subscribed, and you can read it like | any other group. `---- Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email?... 2008-02-14 21:46 ` Reiner Steib @ 2008-02-15 2:44 ` Bastien 0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2008-02-15 2:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Hi Reiner, Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes: > On Thu, Feb 14 2008, Bastien Guerry wrote: > >> This minimal Gnus configuration file might help you here: > > I wouldn't call it "minimal Gnus configuration file". Some settings > there are already the default, not required or just a matter of taste. I think that knowing the name of the variables which are setting the default can be helpful for those who want to change the default. As for the matter of taste, I'd be happy to improve the file if you suggest to remove something. > ,----[ (info "(gnus)Starting Up") ] > ,----[ (info "(gnus)Getting Started Reading Mail") ] I know this. But the first page doesn't really mention the second one, and the second page is the 6.3.2 section. Might take time to get there. Maybe the only useful thing in my config example is this: ,---- | (setq gnus-select-method '(nnnil)) | (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml ""))) `---- I think this is the correct way to configure Gnus for reading email (if you choose the `nnml' backend, which is a matter of taste.) But the Gnus manual doesn't mention `nnnil' *anywhere*. On http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/GnusQuestions you can read this: ,---- | • What is the supposed way to just read mail and no news at all? | Currently I have | | (setq gnus-select-method '(nnml "")) | | and no secondary-select-method at all, but I feel it’s not right. | | • Who is this stupid asking all this basic stuff anyone knows anyway? | – StefanKamphausen (thankful for any pointers ;-) ) `---- It is not easy to figure out what is the correct setting for `gnus-select-method' when you just want to read email. -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2008-03-16 1:21 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <mailman.7404.1203000382.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2008-02-14 22:49 ` For users not programmers with very little, maybe a smattering of experience, how do you setup gnus for reading email? Sam Peterson 2008-02-15 8:04 ` Tassilo Horn 2008-02-16 19:01 Don Saklad 2008-02-16 23:40 ` Bastien Guerry 2008-02-17 13:04 ` Don Saklad 2008-02-17 23:03 ` Mike Mattie [not found] ` <mailman.7537.1203289460.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2008-03-16 1:21 ` David Combs -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below -- 2008-02-14 13:58 Don Saklad 2008-02-14 18:24 ` Eric Hanchrow [not found] ` <mailman.7410.1203014298.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2008-02-14 19:05 ` Joel J. Adamson 2008-02-14 20:17 ` Bastien Guerry 2008-02-14 21:46 ` Reiner Steib 2008-02-15 2:44 ` Bastien
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