From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eric Abrahamsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs as a translator's tool Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2021 11:31:32 -0800 Message-ID: <87k0fz6pkb.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <871rn35lqc.fsf@mbork.pl> <87zh9r45ad.fsf@mbork.pl> <87h7vz2m5g.fsf@ebih.ebihd> <87zh9qr67n.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <3DBA2692-28A0-4AC3-B884-78763A9C7B16@traduction-libre.org> <87tuzyr474.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87h7rwtov7.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87pmpriwvk.fsf@mbork.pl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31729"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: help-gnu-emacs To: Marcin Borkowski Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 20 20:33:14 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mzOPG-0007sM-I0 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 20 Dec 2021 20:33:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45514 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mzOPE-0006ZH-JI for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 20 Dec 2021 14:33:08 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57988) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mzONr-0006W9-NC for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Dec 2021 14:31:44 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:55044) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mzONp-0003WS-Ow for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Dec 2021 14:31:43 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (c-71-197-232-41.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [71.197.232.41]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A8ACFFA02D; Mon, 20 Dec 2021 19:31:33 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericabrahamsen.net; s=mail; t=1640028693; bh=cuIbUvBPYSxuQA5oAb2absZGEQ4RG4LQT6RkarzoSWU=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=H4nelqAMgG+6CHeHfzNehiQ2UGOHq0XsUJrSCuqc/N9YxF4TueNXd5L20NOcadaxP aeDoMZ+crT6xW8Bkv4Ouw2xWVYN25qy3mKIagbwPLX+Lm2zbATyS54inb9ZgaIdtQ+ cbMxVCJn0wMbAWGW+Eo7yGuVK+DgOHoggvBUv1B4= In-Reply-To: <87pmpriwvk.fsf@mbork.pl> (Marcin Borkowski's message of "Mon, 20 Dec 2021 08:00:31 +0100") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=52.70.2.18; envelope-from=eric@ericabrahamsen.net; helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:134991 Archived-At: Marcin Borkowski writes: > On 2020-09-17, at 17:16, Eric Abrahamsen wrote: > >> Okay, I've finally implemented this, and pushed a version 0 of a package >> called org-translate to ELPA. You can see the code here: > > Hi Eric, > > so, after more than a year, I decided to finally take a look. (Well, > the main reason I started this thread was that I was translating > a relatively short paper, which was done pretty quickly, so I didn't > have much motivation to dive into this... Sorry!) I only read the > readme for now, but it looks interesting. > > It turned out that I'm now in the middle (sort-of) of another > translation project, much bigger this time. (It started over a year ago > and I estimate that it's going to take me at least half a year, maybe > more if the scope increases, which is pretty likely.) The trouble is, > your package won't help me /at all/, since it is tied to Org-mode. My > project involves translating subtitles in .srt format. (I blogged about > it twice: > http://mbork.pl/2020-10-26_Scrolling_all_windows_simultaneously > http://mbork.pl/2021-05-30_Extending_subed-mode; I also blogged about my > previous similar project: > http://mbork.pl/2020-10-12_Editing_subtitles_in_Emacs_with_subed) > > Of course, when translating subtitles, segmentation is basically taken > care of already (even if I sometimes need to change it a bit). On the > other hand, being able to view the relevant place in the source in > a separate window, while not strictly necessary, could be helpful. > Also, a glossary would be nice, too. Is there any chance of separating > org-translate from Org itself? (It could be useful for other cases, > too, like translating papers in LaTeX - which I also did a few times in > the past.) Thanks for continuing this thread, and for the feedback! To be honest, I'm still very ambivalent about this package. Along with some other code I've written (org-annotate and Gnorb) I feel like there's potentially something useful in there, but I haven't quite got it right. Mostly because I don't have a 100% clear concept of what features are really needed. I use org-translate, and find the glossary stuff useful, but there's still something wrong about it. I'd always intended to decouple it from Org, but I wouldn't want to do that coding work until I figured out exactly what is wrong, and had a clearer sense of the features I want. A "hard" glossary is important (where there's a rigid one-to-one correspondence between language terms), and a "soft" glossary (where there's a more general linkage), and I feel like org-translate does that okay. But I also want to just leave certain phrases and words in the original in my translation, and somehow mark them as "come back to this later". And I want to put in multiple versions or drafts of a particular word/phrase/sentence/paragraph, and be able to cycle through them. I don't know how any of that stuff should look yet. But yes, as it currently stands org-translate is far too rigid in its requirement of Org, and its particular source/target setup. For my current translation project I was given a PDF, not a text file (curse them!!!), so I can't use org-translate at all. The whole thing needs to be reconsidered. Eric