Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?

Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?

[Jean Louis]

I am trying to understand this, before I did not see that occuring. I
am editing many .el files and then since some months those files are
automatically read only on opening them in next session.

Why is this?

I don't want it read only on each new session.

-- 
Jean

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Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 14:51:35 +0300
> From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> 
> I am trying to understand this, before I did not see that occuring. I
> am editing many .el files and then since some months those files are
> automatically read only on opening them in next session.
> 
> Why is this?
> 
> I don't want it read only on each new session.

Details, please:

 . what Emacs version?
 . what are "my .el files"? are they those which came with Emacs,
   something that you yourself wrote, something else?
 . how do you visit them?

Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2024 14:58:57 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> 
> Details, please:
> 
>  . what Emacs version?
>  . what are "my .el files"? are they those which came with Emacs,
>    something that you yourself wrote, something else?
>  . how do you visit them?

And also:

  . what does "ls -l" say about these files?

Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?

[Jean Louis]

* Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-06 15:05]:
> > Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2024 14:58:57 +0300
> > From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> > 
> > Details, please:
> > 
> >  . what Emacs version?
> >  . what are "my .el files"? are they those which came with Emacs,
> >    something that you yourself wrote, something else?
> >  . how do you visit them?

Those are files I write.

>   . what does "ls -l" say about these files?

-rw-r--r-- 1 lco lco 682090 Jul  6 15:25 rcd-cf.el
-rw-r--r-- 1 lco lco 112801 Jul  3 17:37 rcd-utilities.el

That is example.

I just opened rcd-utilities.el with `emacs -Q' and it is read-only.

But some other files are not read-only.



Jean

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Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 15:47:27 +0300
> From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> * Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-06 15:05]:
> > > Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2024 14:58:57 +0300
> > > From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> > > 
> > > Details, please:
> > > 
> > >  . what Emacs version?
> > >  . what are "my .el files"? are they those which came with Emacs,
> > >    something that you yourself wrote, something else?
> > >  . how do you visit them?
> 
> Those are files I write.
> 
> >   . what does "ls -l" say about these files?
> 
> -rw-r--r-- 1 lco lco 682090 Jul  6 15:25 rcd-cf.el
> -rw-r--r-- 1 lco lco 112801 Jul  3 17:37 rcd-utilities.el
> 
> That is example.

You didn't say what Emacs version is that.

> I just opened rcd-utilities.el with `emacs -Q' and it is read-only.
> 
> But some other files are not read-only.

What's the difference between the two groups?  Does "ls -l" show the
same for files from both groups?

Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?

[Jean Louis]

* Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-06 16:57]:
> You didn't say what Emacs version is that.

GNU Emacs 30.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.38, cairo version 1.16.0) of 2024-05-04

> > I just opened rcd-utilities.el with `emacs -Q' and it is read-only.
> > 
> > But some other files are not read-only.
> 
> What's the difference between the two groups?  Does "ls -l" show the
> same for files from both groups?

Yes, it shows the same. Some files are read only when opened, and some
are not. I cannot understand what is the difference.


Jean

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Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?

[Emanuel Berg]

Jean Louis wrote:

>>> I just opened rcd-utilities.el with `emacs -Q' and it is
>>> read-only.
>>> 
>>> But some other files are not read-only.
>> 
>> What's the difference between the two groups? Does "ls -l"
>> show the same for files from both groups?
>
> Yes, it shows the same. Some files are read only when
> opened, and some are not. I cannot understand what is
> the difference.

File local variables, desktop settings, different filesystems
you have at some point virtualized together pretty good but
not quite?

> Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
> https://www.fsf.org/campaigns
>
> ✡️🛡️ Proudly standing with Israel, a nation rooted in history
> and culture. Let's condemn hatred and promote understanding.
>
> In support of Richard M.
> Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/

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completely different depending from where you look and in
what direction.

-- 
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Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?

[Emanuel Berg]

>> Yes, it shows the same. Some files are read only when
>> opened, and some are not. I cannot understand what is
>> the difference.
>
> File local variables, desktop settings, different
> filesystems you have at some point virtualized together
> pretty good but not quite?

Very strong Déjà vu from this.

Did it already happen?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?

[Jean Louis]

* Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-06 16:57]:
> What's the difference between the two groups?  Does "ls -l" show the
> same for files from both groups?

I was using RCS before, then I stopped. But rcs was not installed. However, those files that were registered in RCS were read only.

I have renamed RCS directory and now those files do not appear read only.

But I wonder how is that when rcs command was not installed.

Jean

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Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?

[Robert Pluim]

>>>>> On Sun, 14 Jul 2024 09:00:53 +0300, Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> said:

    Jean> * Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-06 16:57]:
    >> What's the difference between the two groups?  Does "ls -l" show the
    >> same for files from both groups?

    Jean> I was using RCS before, then I stopped. But rcs was not installed. However, those files that were registered in RCS were read only.

    Jean> I have renamed RCS directory and now those files do not appear read only.

    Jean> But I wonder how is that when rcs command was not installed.

vc-rcs.el installs a find-file hook that makes RCS buffers
readonly. Iʼm guessing that it checks just for the presence of RCS/
files (I says 'guessing' because vc is a twisty maze of passages).

Robert
-- 

Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?

[Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

> vc-rcs.el installs a find-file hook that makes RCS buffers
> readonly.

Indeed:

    (defun vc-rcs-find-file-hook ()
      ;; If the file is locked by some other user, make
      ;; the buffer read-only.  Like this, even root
      ;; cannot modify a file that someone else has locked.
      (and (stringp (vc-state buffer-file-name 'RCS))
           (setq buffer-read-only t)))

> Iʼm guessing that it checks just for the presence of RCS/
> files (I says 'guessing' because vc is a twisty maze of passages).

No, it actually checks the RCS status.  It doesn't need the `rcs`
executable for that, instead it parses the RCS file.


        Stefan

Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 09:00:53 +0300
> From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> * Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-06 16:57]:
> > What's the difference between the two groups?  Does "ls -l" show the
> > same for files from both groups?
> 
> I was using RCS before, then I stopped. But rcs was not installed. However, those files that were registered in RCS were read only.
> 
> I have renamed RCS directory and now those files do not appear read only.
> 
> But I wonder how is that when rcs command was not installed.

That's clear to me: when you check-in a file into RCS, it is made
read-only in the filesystem.  That's how RCS works, always has.

Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?

[Jean Louis]

* Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-17 14:36]:
> > Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 09:00:53 +0300
> > From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> > 
> > * Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-06 16:57]:
> > > What's the difference between the two groups?  Does "ls -l" show the
> > > same for files from both groups?
> > 
> > I was using RCS before, then I stopped. But rcs was not installed. However, those files that were registered in RCS were read only.
> > 
> > I have renamed RCS directory and now those files do not appear read only.
> > 
> > But I wonder how is that when rcs command was not installed.
> 
> That's clear to me: when you check-in a file into RCS, it is made
> read-only in the filesystem.  That's how RCS works, always has.

Mystery solved.

Question is if it should be that way even if `rcs' command is not installed.


Jean

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Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2024 17:46:09 +0300
> From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> * Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-17 14:36]:
> > > I have renamed RCS directory and now those files do not appear read only.
> > > 
> > > But I wonder how is that when rcs command was not installed.
> > 
> > That's clear to me: when you check-in a file into RCS, it is made
> > read-only in the filesystem.  That's how RCS works, always has.
> 
> Mystery solved.
> 
> Question is if it should be that way even if `rcs' command is not installed.

Emacs tries to be efficient, so it takes the existence of the RCS
subdirectory and the files in it as the indication of the fact that
the file is managed by RCS.  This is faster than invoking the RCS
programs.

Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?

[Jean Louis]

* Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-19 21:04]:
> > Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2024 17:46:09 +0300
> > From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> > 
> > * Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-17 14:36]:
> > > > I have renamed RCS directory and now those files do not appear read only.
> > > > 
> > > > But I wonder how is that when rcs command was not installed.
> > > 
> > > That's clear to me: when you check-in a file into RCS, it is made
> > > read-only in the filesystem.  That's how RCS works, always has.
> > 
> > Mystery solved.
> > 
> > Question is if it should be that way even if `rcs' command is not installed.
> 
> Emacs tries to be efficient, so it takes the existence of the RCS
> subdirectory and the files in it as the indication of the fact that
> the file is managed by RCS.  This is faster than invoking the RCS
> programs.

Don't you think that some kind of warning shall be given about it, like in *Messages* that it did not find rcs command and that files are made read-only?

Jean

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Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2024 12:28:35 +0300
> From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> * Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-19 21:04]:
> > Emacs tries to be efficient, so it takes the existence of the RCS
> > subdirectory and the files in it as the indication of the fact that
> > the file is managed by RCS.  This is faster than invoking the RCS
> > programs.
> 
> Don't you think that some kind of warning shall be given about it, like in *Messages* that it did not find rcs command and that files are made read-only?

Emacs doesn't know that rcs is not available, because it avoids
calling it.