From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: not good proposal: "C-z " reserved for users Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 12:28:09 +0100 Message-ID: <87im6u51o6.fsf@posteo.net> References: <871rdk4c1m.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> <640551af-d035-f133-3b98-fe7c7a06279d@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38550"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: gregory@heytings.org, Robert Thorpe , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 14 12:28:46 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lBFa2-0009vc-5B for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 12:28:46 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58098 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lBFa1-0001XA-7Z for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 06:28:45 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58780) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lBFZZ-0001Vn-IN for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 06:28:17 -0500 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:49411) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lBFZW-0006rR-Sr for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 06:28:17 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C3734160060 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 12:28:11 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1613302091; bh=AUolUSRe1lBS3NishnA5Zt2DC6vWCOdUH49BzHoq6ps=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=iWgaM9GpomBjBH2KfadHLM58/wWD4LyTMxjWcrrBw7Kdz7akKnQ+AXqDgqGy2FmyT pZSlAn5PKifVYnM0pw23ENrjgzwfvrAKttJS7bvXJp78MG42zSspkpEizbjbAOBEDz ORUslFic7qZAS6CbYVTVisnQIy0VVkgL7+VB3L+xnUCnTw2c+j/KXoP5i+UoyHTjEk qhvRS5x8Su2EpbEdRDsA3D+htg+YwDRNGkPcIeHkrsys4X+Ntql6LP0V2rlV6tV2ao HCOogMMUU8y2Gyogq1EeFdrdQ7Mn9qTgHwpxtBeXpmdLIOPCxrgLgVGryiNhsJGE27 Sj1QSdyo2qMPw== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4DdlNB69y7z9rxr; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 12:28:10 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <640551af-d035-f133-3b98-fe7c7a06279d@yandex.ru> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Sun, 14 Feb 2021 02:35:20 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:128019 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dmitry Gutov writes: > On 13.02.2021 10:17, Robert Thorpe wrote: >> Dmitry Gutov writes: >>=20 >>> On 12.02.2021 07:42, Robert Thorpe wrote: >>> >>>> I agree with Jean Louis on that too. I think C-z C-z is not good >>>> enough. Every other terminal application uses C-z by itself, it's a >>>> convention. It's been that way for decades. If you write a terminal >>>> application and do nothing special then C-z will suspend it. That's >>>> because it sends SIGTSTP. >>> >>> Could we someday stop considering Emacs a "terminal application"? Yes, >>> it has a version that works in the terminal, but it's limited in >>> features compared to the graphical one. >> I only use graphical Emacs myself. But I think that terminal Emacs >> is >> still important, as Jean Louis says. >> Lots of people who have started using Emacs recently came to from >> the >> terminal. You can see that on Emacs Reddit. > > Those are often former Vim developers, too. So it might not be due to > the nature of their work, but largely due to their previous habits. > > It's not a 100% conclusion of the survey we have referred to previously, > but its results state that ~30% of all users are in the terminal, ~30% > of all users are using a Vim key bindings emulation, and ~30% of all=20 > users have been using Vim as their primary editor previously. They > can't be all the same users, but it's an interesting coincidence. We do have the raw data from https://emacssurvey.org/2020/, it is possible to how these factors influence one another, but in the end, I don't think that makes terminal Emacs usage illegitimate. =2D-=20 Philip K. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQHHBAEBCAAxFiEEbW+YL3e0aNnYosjIGB9bla4wszYFAmApCUkTHHBoaWxpcGtA cG9zdGVvLm5ldAAKCRAYH1uVrjCzNlUEC/0XZ4S0mQKjE25FRRe6e8iEJf/lr1C7 lF8Dpz4xQMFIX5u3jvPXFVXSiBHQ6hpjg91EWBIKtKLn2WiiXKibcUxz/cbK34IY hCoF2Em93rEKaCb9/vR+DUbfNo/QngcKly77JWq+Xj4dVQY9g+19jhUgYBVd88/j ItrPyqIRahzdUEufwwfzfjIpvZz7rRNqTfPn22eBG/M2h2886MXNLRCanQhhC3MI IfvLaQqIHeMNOnDRiRB7lP4wUb76IDEX9sjtyef3KY999Q/z/tHAmfEnOOiFK6AV UA/ILLArmS0Qi4im+JxPYEZL5fjnjRDWQn1RDafkY+EEvUqcPdZ/uB4FYroL86bE 7TyPvbDXAlHJwcc4XxEGb0/VtJr7psINzx50hZdPf7E8LuNWKR/wzaVsaOvZr3Ky Ficyr4+W0Hoy6eEp1XWsv240N2PhloIiInx8frx/bn25G6KA0uuQUrPvelPB1Rnt WUZugyJJTj1YK3Qaviz6aDVGDvTCC+Y78DA= =E+4J -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--