From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: floyd@barrow.com (Floyd L. Davidson) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: emacs for everything? Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:48:07 -0900 Organization: __________ Message-ID: <87hdnmmzp4.fld@barrow.com> References: <10pg1ivp03kqa69@corp.supernews.com> <87u0rq14xu.fsf@163.com> <87zn1i6ibz.fld@barrow.com> <9mmdnc.46.ln@acm.acm> <874qjo48ml.fld@barrow.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1100825476 23968 80.91.229.6 (19 Nov 2004 00:51:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 00:51:16 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 19 01:51:09 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CUwzU-0008ET-00 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 2004 01:51:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CUx8M-0005XE-97 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Nov 2004 20:00:18 -0500 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!HSNX.atgi.net!falcon.america.net!eagle.america.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help User-Agent: gnus 5.10.6/XEmacs 21.4.15/Linux 2.6.5 Cancel-Lock: sha1:EpYkMU+cBQc3Sx2i+XihJxyIeaY= Original-Lines: 83 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.124.156.138 Original-X-Trace: eagle.america.net 1100825423 209.124.156.138 (Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:50:23 EST) Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 19:50:23 EST Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:126739 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:22136 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:22136 Alan Mackenzie wrote: > >> I would like to know how you use your fingers and brain to remember the >> _current_ time on a clock that you do not display? (As just one very >> trivial example of how limited your described environment is in a real >> world.) > >I don't - I just look up at the device hanging on the wall, or glance at You missed the point, again Alan. As I noted, that is a trivial example. It demonstrates the point, but is not meant to flag a significant usage. It shows that there are applications which present data that cannot be remembered simply because the data changes (or the data set is too large to be remembered, or too detailed, or whatever). For that application to be useful on a computer, as opposed having to hang it on the wall (which could be done by simply having another computer, or 15 or 20 of them, sitting next to your existing one, so no it is not restricted only to things where non-computer devices, such as a clock, can also provide the same information). Sounds ridiculous beyond belief? Right! But the fact is that I saw a toll testboard supervisor, about 10 years ago, claim that telecom technicians on a trouble desk could have 5 terminals, each with an RS-232 switch and with dynamo labels on the side of each monitor to indicate the proper terminal configuration for each switch position, as opposed to spending the money necessary to run X windows on a reasonable computer (roughly $5000 each as opposed to less than $1000 for the terminal/switch arrangement. (That company ceased to exist too... think about it! Productivity counts.) In addition to a clock on my computer screen, I also have two other programs displaying information that is dynamically updated. Having them available via keyboard commands is certainly possible, but the point was that such a mechanism reduces productivity. Indeed, the entire point of my comments has been that what you are describing is *not* a very productive arrangement. Whether you are satisfied with a non-productive work environment is beyond the scope of my interest, or the topic of this newsgroup, though I will say that hopefully your attitude relates only to your personal work, because an employer should probably terminate you for cause under those circumstances. >the one strapped to my left wrist. If, for any reason, I wanted to know >my computer's idea of the time, I'd type in "date" and press the carriage >return key. And if I really, really, really badly wanted it continuously >displayed on my console, I'd get Emacs to display it on the mode-line. >How to do this is described in the Emacs manual on the page "Optional >Mode Line", if you're interested. I don't, though. You can trust that I'm probably far more familiar with displaying data on the modeline that you are. However, the mode line is only so wide and so high, and can't display very much. Something trivial like the date and time it can do quite well. But it can't show me much about what is on this or that web page which I might be using to research something I'm writing... >Questions: Do you have the time displayed continuously on your screen? >If so, why? Did you chose to have it there, or did your window manager >put it there by default, as it were. What do you get out of it? I wrote the program that displays the time on my screen. I also have a very much customized modeline for my emacs, which shows the current date and time in a way that is distinctly different from the default. What I get out of it is the increased productivity of having a known to be accurate time standard (wall clocks here are not accurate), and (this is the important part, so listen up) I can observe the time without having to interrupt whatever I am typing. You mentioned that you have good manual dexterity, but that is wasted in an environment where you have to stop whatever productive work you are doing and use that particular talent to learn the current time. I don't have that problem, and I do find it significant (and I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that I type faster than you!). -- Floyd L. Davidson Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@barrow.com