From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: if vs. when vs. and: style question Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 14:59:32 +0200 Organization: Informatimago Message-ID: <87h9t2y72j.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> References: <87lhilx0cf.fsf@debian.uxu> <87twx9360u.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <0d1d19ab-06e9-462d-8867-9a49b1e232d3@googlegroups.com> <87pp7x2jav.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87d23s4nt4.fsf@debian.uxu> <7e8ddf8f-163a-4d16-9ce2-25b0cb3f35aa@googlegroups.com> <87sicny7zm.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <874mp3clqi.fsf@wanadoo.es> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1427721049 22875 80.91.229.3 (30 Mar 2015 13:10:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 13:10:49 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 30 15:10:38 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YcZSM-0002Pb-Dm for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 30 Mar 2015 15:10:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33789 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YcZSL-0006rv-CS for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 30 Mar 2015 09:10:17 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 51 Original-X-Trace: individual.net pIBlfj4vShxby96crac38wN+mD+3rXI6unXlEdwRQja6N++QEe Cancel-Lock: sha1:NTU4MzUzOWFhNzkyNzYzYzAyMGI2ZGFjMzMyMTM4MmQxMTJhNzM1Zg== sha1:w2GlLKyxBoGLKFf97mwZC5d8A98= Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAQMAAABtzGvEAAAABlBMVEUAAAD///+l2Z/dAAAA oElEQVR4nK3OsRHCMAwF0O8YQufUNIQRGIAja9CxSA55AxZgFO4coMgYrEDDQZWPIlNAjwq9 033pbOBPtbXuB6PKNBn5gZkhGa86Z4x2wE67O+06WxGD/HCOGR0deY3f9Ijwwt7rNGNf6Oac l/GuZTF1wFGKiYYHKSFAkjIo1b6sCYS1sVmFhhhahKQssRjRT90ITWUk6vvK3RsPGs+M1RuR mV+hO/VvFAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Accept-Language: fr, es, en User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:211164 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:103446 Archived-At: writes: > On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 03:33:41AM +0200, Óscar Fuentes wrote: >> Stefan Monnier writes: > > [...] > >> > you say >> > >> > Γ ⊢ e : τ > > [...] > >> > Of course, if you're not familiar with the local conventions, it looks >> > like line noise, but otherwise it offers people much higher concision, >> > so they can focus on the important aspects. >> >> Those conventions make sense when you work on the same field for long >> enough periods (students, specialized programmers...) but I guess that >> most of us deal with heterogeneous code on a regular basis [...] > >> As for the higher concision, it is acceptable for cases where the >> "read-time"/"think-time" ratio is low [...] > > Excuse you both my selective quoting. But you're just confirming one fear > I had all along: in our trade (hacking) it seems we spend far too much time > coding and far too little time thinking! > > Mathematicians, who think more and tinker less, seem to have found a sweet > spot in a far more compact notation. Well, I think the difference is that programmers can deal (or at least, try to deal) with multi-million-line programs, while mathematicians seem to snob multi-million-line profs. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26753-mathematicians-anger-over-his-unread-500page-proof.html On the other hand, some programs are not read and checked enough, as several security bugs discovered recently showed. But nonetheless, professionnally, programmers have to work on big code bases, and find ways to do it, how imperfectly they may be. It looks like mathematicians are less willing or able to do so. -- __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/ “The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment.” -- Carl Bass CEO Autodesk