From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Ctrl-[ ? Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2019 15:06:54 +0200 Message-ID: <87h890ns41.fsf@telefonica.net> References: <08AC8151-5911-40FA-8B20-818B839D00AB@traduction-libre.org> <86h892nk2g.fsf@zoho.eu> <9379C01B-80E3-49DD-B830-46CED773DC2C@traduction-libre.org> <83lfydrkde.fsf@gnu.org> <874l51q0s4.fsf@telefonica.net> <83ef45rdij.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhmto6fa.fsf@telefonica.net> <20190607163017.GA32029@tuxteam.de> <96B116FC-8007-4C42-9AE6-585530D0C76E@comcast.net> <87muisor2h.fsf@telefonica.net> <20190608084404.GB28228@tuxteam.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="41427"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 08 15:07:19 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hZb43-000AVy-70 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 15:07:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58386 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hZb41-0002k1-R3 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 09:07:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52282) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hZb3q-0002jq-5E for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 09:07:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hZb3p-00027M-3I for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 09:07:06 -0400 Original-Received: from [195.159.176.226] (port=60566 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hZb3o-00026a-Rm for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 09:07:05 -0400 Original-Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hZb3l-000AA1-QQ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 15:07:01 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Cancel-Lock: sha1:+xCpt+OI7u4kX5k4uTz+cWgB6Kg= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 195.159.176.226 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:120835 Archived-At: writes: > On Sat, Jun 08, 2019 at 02:31:50AM +0200, Óscar Fuentes wrote: >> Francis Belliveau writes: >> >> > I think that a lot of you are missing the point that was made early on >> > in the discussion. This mapping of ASCII cntrol characters is a >> > definition made by convention since the day of the Teletype machines. >> > It is how the ASCII character set was defined. >> >> So what? Why a GUI user should be inconvenienced or prevented to bind >> C-i, C-[, etc. to whatever he pleases the same way he binds any other >> key combination? > > It /is/ possible: It is *possible*. OTOH (local-set-key "\C-[" 'foo) does not work, which is an obvious bug on my book. If it is a bug on the implementation or on the documentation, is another topic. (for me, as an user, it is a bug on the implementation) > thus I don't quite understand your anger here. Please don't add emotion or hidden intent to written expressions on technical forums, it poisons the discussion. > I think it's OK for it to be discouraged by default. It's OK for it > to be discouraged for "official" Emacs packages. Because there's some > value in Emacs behaving consistently across backends by default > (as much as possible: it's clear that you can't display a PNG on > a VT220, at least not without some compromise in quality). > > Perhaps the ways have to be documented better, and see Stefan's efforts > in making it easier. > > Let me repeat here: there is some value in Emacs behaving consistently > across backends (few editors out there, if any, cover the span from > VT220 to X so elegantly). There are folks who use Emacs simultaneously > with different backends. Sorry, but this makes no sense. Nobody is asking for a change on the default bindings, what we are saying it that the user should be allowed to set the binding the same way he does for any other binding. It is not reasonable to expect from the user knowledge about ancient technologies and the limitations they imposed on the Emacs implementation that deals with them.