From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Another Emacs incompatibilty Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 01:02:11 +0200 Message-ID: <87h7t26vpo.fsf@ebih.ebihd> References: <86r1s648dc.fsf@shell.gmplib.org> Reply-To: Emanuel Berg Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9581"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:Lh/BGSyuesEQ3Qo5TAIkyCm2R+o= Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 17 01:02:42 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k7Rfl-0002PJ-IF for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 01:02:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56604 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k7Rfk-0006HL-KS for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 19:02:40 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60202) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k7RfS-0006Gv-H0 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 19:02:22 -0400 Original-Received: from static.214.254.202.116.clients.your-server.de ([116.202.254.214]:55734 helo=ciao.gmane.io) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k7RfQ-0000AI-VU for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 19:02:22 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k7RfN-0001zY-7p for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Aug 2020 01:02:17 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/08/16 17:18:00 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -8 X-Spam_score: -0.9 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:123677 Archived-At: Torbjörn Granlund wrote: > Rms once said something along the lines of > > Imagine if every car manufacturer would need to > rearrange the controls of their car in order to > avoid look-and-feel copyrights. > > The picture was clear, the steering wheel, the > brake pedal, the gear shift would all need to be > changed around for each manufacturer. > > What does this have to do with emacs? Well, each > emacs release changes things to make much of what > we long term users have gotten accustomed to > invalid. A few releases back, the way the area > between the mark and the insert point worked was > fundamentally changed. (Replace the steering wheel > with a lever!) [...] I agree that doesn't make sense but... is it really that way? I used Emacs for 10~15 years and never experience any problems with updates. Also, I wrote a lot of Elisp, 100+ files [1] and the way I did it was based on my own engineering instinct so to say, I never read any README or ChangeLogs or any of that, so that would make me even more vulnerable to changes, right? But what happens is when I get the new version the byte-compiler tells me maybe one or at most two things in the Elisp, I fix them and that's it. So I wonder how and why we can have such different experience with this... [1] https://dataswamp.org/~incal/conf/emacs-init/ -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 https://dataswamp.org/~incal