From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Philip K." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: Repurpose one key and reserve it for third-party packages Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 10:58:58 +0100 Message-ID: <87h7mha9p9.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87tuqhsxl1.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35370"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: gregory@heytings.org, help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Robert Thorpe Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 12 10:59:51 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lAVEt-000967-8x for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 10:59:51 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50940 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAVEs-0007WC-BK for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 04:59:50 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60212) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAVEA-0007VJ-Er for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 04:59:06 -0500 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:52689) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAVE7-00044n-T5 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 04:59:06 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1827D240104 for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 10:59:00 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1613123941; bh=NYEgLAYwjOUPMsbXUux+efLS60OwnR2qdPlmATgD1Xg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=Rq9XS6RSTJV3v6Dm4ZdTHVN/lDsAn+ktJV/j84TRtxoQZ/86uSlSZhMaIDg0Depu1 BEgCzxY3PEci/9P02X/RYnuvuwgBSb2JKZsyUZ3EWe4OIFcwsO54DeFC8se7asITRB rrEPaASERkCJkoobUvqBkW1dSTKQ28cklue3i+C8WtwGbhFTv7lGejirx0O1R8lGHf eLc6CgI/nHGYOeoLs7IP85Ti2p98SqUQjbbq2VYv7HyLIkoI7hYeM+bccInEm4U1EN OATbQSb+g+ClrxvGw9I8fgfh/zAg3KfZ4ziD/sv68f65E8TkK7D0onBKsFZTxh0UPt /d5AmKwjreiCg== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4DcTVC4yyyz6tmf; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 10:58:59 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <87tuqhsxl1.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> (Robert Thorpe's message of "Fri, 12 Feb 2021 04:45:46 +0000") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:127840 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert Thorpe writes: > "Philip K." writes: > >> [1:text/plain Hide] >> >> Gregory Heytings writes: >> > ... >>> That reminds me the famous "640 kb should be enough for anyone" ;-) >>> Indeed, 26 letters is not enough. Magit has three global commands,=20 >>> Org-mode has three, and Bookmark+ has three keymaps. With just three >>> packages you've already used 35% of the available keys. I hope you=20 >>> understand that it can't be a long-term solution. Moreover, AFAIU, >>> packages cannot automatically bind their commands to C-c LETTER keys=20 >>> anyway: these keys are strictly reserved for users in their personal >>> configuration files. >> >> I think that's the pessimistic way to look at it, the optimistic one >> would be to say that you only need 35% of the key-space. I don't have a >> feeling for how many global keys people bind by default, one would have >> to study public configurations to find out. But I still remain sceptical >> that -- compared to memory usage -- that need for keys is rising that >> much. > > Remember prefix keys here. A user can define a prefix key anywhere in > the region reserved for users. > > The manual says: > > "A small number of keys are reserved for user-defined bindings, and > should not be used by modes, so key bindings using those keys are safer > in this regard. The reserved key sequences are those consisting of > =E2=80=98C-c=E2=80=99 followed by a letter (either upper or lower case), = and function > keys through without modifiers (*note Modifier Keys::)." > > It does not ban using those keys as prefixes. I can make a prefix, > then I have the full keyboard to play with once again once I've pressed > F9. Sure, but if we are assuming that packages either automatically or semi-automatically bind keys, they would have to mutually respect their prefix keys. The guideline would have to be that e.g. C-=CE=B1 [letter] has to be a map, and that package are only allowed to bind keys to these. Also, I don't think package developers would want to comply if they had to use a less ergonomic key such as , undermining the entire plan. > BR, > Robert Thorpe =2D-=20 Philip K. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGzBAEBCAAdFiEEbW+YL3e0aNnYosjIGB9bla4wszYFAmAmUWIACgkQGB9bla4w szZazQv9HHifNflscYMmUxDSqaI8h+vBbkDPfed5UzJUa0AXwidBTs8reFzEMhzP iB/Zv23O75TxgrhB/wj9tX2wOUWxvPxmq8sDrNkaibpK19PHK4QghjlhkJkFTFbC E+dMBsCSI7QZYWNw1UtvwTyDvDM6Z1bcLgXjVpZsVnzbpxhQkHpvUqX3diLMa+X7 AC2vBRRlUL7Ce3lz/895e5agQI6Ge6RfYQP3xhX7yOdwnLER+2wdhNPWErql/lDJ V7qjguDT1Fncw5im+/QOK0KN+A4YJwe3E9a349vDa50BGIvaloFJwgEb4ipNJLjr YtsvPhpkCoX/nP3t7T3Q/poI7T4tg7fLT3LQPgLzgbMy2HigsRujgZgwmkwFXut/ laE4oXbj5uLk3xsSourmVFpIOot82jK8hVMBYxKGDMT7sLwB2GaKMMLxJyMa+wZt GVMOURoBcJW0txASQu6pdypxjekQmeVk62CkzIrA3zMuLRTPYNzbKBUtspz3Bmv1 kmgE9Lx8 =5xTc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--