E-mail package

E-mail package

[gfp]

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Hi GNU Emacs,

1.
I need a graphical overview of folders in my E-mail package
in order to find messages.

In Emacs:
Mu4e,
Mutt (no pop, imap),
Gnus
in all of them there are no folders available.

Are there possibilities to create folders?


2.
I got to know that Thunderbird spies on us and collects data.

2.
which graphical E-mail package do you use, if any?
What would you suggest?

3.

Evolution,
Geary (no pgp)
KMail,
Kontakt - (KDE) probably works only on a KDE Plasma desktop I guess
Claws Mail freezes said somebody

Gottfried

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Re: E-mail package

[Jude DaShiell]

There are ways to create folders in mutt, but they're called mailboxes if
memory serves.  That takes configuration of mailboxes to do it in mutt.
In /usr/share/mutt there is a script called fleacollar.sh.  It may be near
that directory.  If you run fleacollar.sh in your user account
fleacollar.sh will set many things up for you.

-- 
 Jude <jdashiel at panix dot com>
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Sat, 19 Oct 2024, gfp wrote:

> Hi GNU Emacs,
>
> 1.
> I need a graphical overview of folders in my E-mail package
> in order to find messages.
>
> In Emacs:
> Mu4e,
> Mutt (no pop, imap),
> Gnus
> in all of them there are no folders available.
>
> Are there possibilities to create folders?
>
>
> 2.
> I got to know that Thunderbird spies on us and collects data.
>
> 2.
> which graphical E-mail package do you use, if any?
> What would you suggest?
>
> 3.
>
> Evolution,
> Geary (no pgp)
> KMail,
> Kontakt - (KDE) probably works only on a KDE Plasma desktop I guess
> Claws Mail freezes said somebody
>
> Gottfried
>

Re: E-mail package

[W. Greenhouse]

gfp <gfp@posteo.at> writes:

> Hi GNU Emacs,
>
> 1.
> I need a graphical overview of folders in my E-mail package
> in order to find messages.
>
> In Emacs:
> Mu4e,
> Mutt (no pop, imap),
> Gnus
> in all of them there are no folders available.
>
> Are there possibilities to create folders?

Gnus has folder support. This is through the `gnus-group-make-group'
command, bound by default to G m when looking at the *Group* buffer.

Re: E-mail package

[Eric S Fraga]

Response below/inline for email W. Greenhouse wrote:
> (original email sent 19 Oct 2024 at 23:19)
> Gnus has folder support. This is through the `gnus-group-make-group'
> command, bound by default to G m when looking at the *Group* buffer.

And existing folders for any email server can be seen by switching to
the server view in gnus (^ from the Group buffer) and typing RET on the
particular server.

-- 
Eric S Fraga via gnus (Emacs 31.0.50 2024-08-28) on Debian bookworm/sid

Re: E-mail package

[Jean Louis]

* gfp <gfp@posteo.at> [2024-10-19 17:17]:
> Hi GNU Emacs,
> 
> 1. I need a graphical overview of folders in my E-mail package
> in order to find messages.
> 
> In Emacs:
> Mu4e,
> Mutt (no pop, imap),
> Gnus
> in all of them there are no folders available.
> 
> Are there possibilities to create folders?
> 
> 
> 2.
> I got to know that Thunderbird spies on us and collects data.
> 
> 2.
> which graphical E-mail package do you use, if any?
> What would you suggest?
> 
> 3.
> 
> Evolution,
> Geary (no pgp)
> KMail,
> Kontakt - (KDE) probably works only on a KDE Plasma desktop I guess
> Claws Mail freezes said somebody

The decades long strategy I follow is that for each email of
correspondent, such as user@example.com my software generates
automatically folder in ~/Maildir such as ~/Maildir/user@example.com
which contains all the correspondence between any of my emails and the
correspondent.

- I am using Maildir mail box type for reasons explained here:
  cr.yp.to/proto/maildir.html:
  http://cr.yp.to/proto/maildir.html

- All correspondence related to particular email address go to
  specific Maildir for that address, like ~/Maildir/user@example.com

- If I am using any other E-mail software, that maybe saves e-mails
  into single file, then I use GNU Mailutils program `sieve' and sort
  all the e-mails to their corresponding Maildir folders such as
  ~/Maildir/user@example.com

- Listing Maildir folders is possible within Emacs as well with
  maildir.el package and `mu' for Emacs

- Making list of folders may be done this way:

(defun mutt-emails-of-email (email)
  "Opens XTerm with mutt showing conversations related to EMAIL."
  (let* ((maildir (format (concat (file-name-as-directory
				   (getenv "MAILDIR"))
				  "%s")
			  email)))
    (start-process "Mutt" "Mutt" "xterm" "-e" "mutt" "-f" maildir)))

Then this function generates Org file with 1000 folders maximum, it is made for demonstration:

(defun my-maildirs ()
  "List maildir folders in Org mode ready to launch."
  (interactive)
  (catch 'no-maildir-found
    (let ((maildir (getenv "MAILDIR")))
      (unless (and maildir
		   (file-directory-p maildir))
	(throw 'no-maildir-found "I did not find $MAILDIR environment."))
    (let ((maildir-files (seq-take (directory-files maildir t "@") 1000))
	  (meta-buffer "my-maildirs.org"))
    (with-temp-buffer-window meta-buffer nil nil
      (switch-to-buffer meta-buffer)
      (org-mode)
      (keymap-local-set "<RET>" 'org-open-at-point)
      (keymap-local-set "q" 'quit-window)
      (insert "#+TITLE: My Maildir folders\n\n")
      (insert "* My Maildirs\n\n")
      (while maildir-files
	(let ((file (pop maildir-files)))
	  (insert (format "- [[elisp:(mutt-emails-of-email \"%s\")][%s]]\n" 
			  (file-name-nondirectory file)
			  (file-name-nondirectory file))))))))))

It works very good on my side.

By using similar approach, one can fire any other e-mail comptaible
software on the Maildir folder to see what is inside or to read and
send emails.

Folders are available in each of software you mentioned.

For Mutt, here is settings:

# Save by email address
set save_name=yes
set save_address=yes
set folder=/home/data1/protected/Maildir
set mbox_type=Maildir
set record="+Sent"

So basically one needs settings to ensure that email sent to user is saved into ~/Maildir/user@example.com

or sieve to move emails from one folder to system folders.

Here is sieve script:

require [ "fileinto", "variables" ];
if address :matches [ "from" ] "*" {
  set "recipient" :lower "${1}";
  fileinto "~/Maildir/${recipient}";
            }

and it is run on mbox type like:

sieve -v --dry-run -f MBOX-FILE name-of-sieve-script

where you remove dry run, and replace MBOX-FILE with actual file and
sieve script with the name of actual script.

How to create Maildir:

$ maildirmake Maildir/my@folder.com

You can call folders as you wish.

I do not use graphical email, but when I use, then Geary for sending
or Thunderbird. But then I sort Sent emails into Maildir folders.

Emacs is enough graphica

How to open Maildir in Emacs?l
------------------------------

(defun rcd-maildir-open (email)
  "Opens maildir for email address"
  (let ((maildir (concat (file-name-as-directory (getenv "MAILDIR")) email)))
    (maildir-list maildir)))

We must understand that above will open Maildir as EMAIL address as specified in the $MAILDIR main directory.

And maildir.el library is here:

https://github.com/nicferrier/emacs-maildir

That means function could be rewritten to show folders in Org mode:

(defun my-maildirs ()
  "List maildir folders in Org mode ready to launch."
  (interactive)
  (catch 'no-maildir-found
    (let ((maildir (getenv "MAILDIR")))
      (unless (and maildir
		   (file-directory-p maildir))
	(throw 'no-maildir-found "I did not find $MAILDIR environment."))
      (let ((maildir-files (seq-take (directory-files maildir t "@") 1000))
	    (meta-buffer "my-maildirs.org"))
	(with-temp-buffer-window meta-buffer nil nil
	  (switch-to-buffer meta-buffer)
	  (org-mode)
	  (keymap-local-set "<RET>" 'org-open-at-point)
	  (keymap-local-set "q" 'quit-window)
	  (insert "#+TITLE: My Maildir folders\n\n")
	  (insert "* My Maildirs\n\n")
	  (while maildir-files
	    (let ((file (pop maildir-files)))
	      (insert (format "- [[elisp:(rcd-maildir-open \"%s\")][%s]]\n" 
			      (file-name-nondirectory file)
			      (file-name-nondirectory file))))))))))

Then it works pretty much in Emacs, user can run function and get list
of all emails, search for particular email and by click open all
conversation related to that email. But maildir.el is not complete, so
deleting emails is not option, that is I use Mutt.

-- 
Jean Louis

Re: E-mail package

[Joel Reicher]

gfp <gfp@posteo.at> writes:

[...]

> which graphical E-mail package do you use, if any?
> What would you suggest?
>
> 3.
>
> Evolution,
> Geary (no pgp)
> KMail,
> Kontakt - (KDE) probably works only on a KDE Plasma desktop I 
> guess
> Claws Mail freezes said somebody

Maybe check

https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Category/Email-software/mail-client

?

(Don't forget to click  "further results"

Regards,

        - Joel

Re: E-mail package

[Christopher Howard]

Could you clarify again why it is that you want a 3rd party "graphical e-mail client". I have found that the built-in Gnus does everything I want and more, including rending HTML and image parts. Gnus' splitting system, groups, and related features have work well for me.

-- 
Christopher Howard

Re: E-mail package

[gfp]

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Hi,

thanks for answering me.

I need a graphical view of folders, because I have created approx. 100 
folders and put every email via filters in those folders.
So I can quickly find messages related to some specific topic or addresses.

I don't know at the moment how could I achieve that in Emacs.
Secondly I am learning Emacs and am not yet in a stage to do everything 
via keybindings.
I also don't know how much time it would need to set up my e-mail stuff 
in Emacs.
I used already so much time to learn Emacs and to set up something in 
Emacs takes a lot of time, which I don´t have.
I read that to set up Gnus takes much time.

thanks

Gottfried



Am 23.12.24 um 18:27 schrieb Christopher Howard:
> Could you clarify again why it is that you want a 3rd party "graphical e-mail client". I have found that the built-in Gnus does everything I want and more, including rending HTML and image parts. Gnus' splitting system, groups, and related features have work well for me.
> 


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Re: E-mail package

[Christopher Howard]

gfp <gfp@posteo.at> writes:

> Hi,
>
> thanks for answering me.
>
> I need a graphical view of folders, because I have created approx. 100
> folders and put every email via filters in those folders.
> So I can quickly find messages related to some specific topic or addresses.
>
> I don't know at the moment how could I achieve that in Emacs.
> Secondly I am learning Emacs and am not yet in a stage to do
> everything via keybindings.
> I also don't know how much time it would need to set up my e-mail
> stuff in Emacs.
> I used already so much time to learn Emacs and to set up something in
> Emacs takes a lot of time, which I don´t have.
> I read that to set up Gnus takes much time.
>

There is a learning curve to Gnus, for sure, but the info manual is very helpful, and also there is a
#gnus irc channel on libera that is helpful.

Gnus has something called "Groups" and a "Group Buffer". These groups can be thought of like folders, and through "splitting", incoming mail can be moved into various groups automatically based on subject, From addresses, and so forth. I use this for splitting mailing lists out into their own groups.

After that, you get more great things you can do with groups, like assigning levels of importance to groups. This way, you can choose to view only certain groups depending on, say, how much spare time you have a give moment. And within a group, you can filter out threads that are not of interest to you.

Further advantages of Gnus is (1) it integrates well with your other Emacs processes and configuration; and (2) you can use it to handle other kinds of messages, through various Gnus backends. E.g., nnatom and nnrss can be used to process Blog and News feeds.

Since you have some involvement in Emacs already, I would encourage giving more consideration to Gnus. It allows you to apply to the power of Emacs text processing and programmability to the whole notion of "processing news", which includes handling incoming e-mail messages, as well as various other sources of information.

-- 
Christopher Howard

Re: E-mail package

[gfp]

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Hi Christopher,

thanks very much for the detailed explanation.

When I opening Thunderbird, and I am connected to the internet,
I see all my folders (if I also scroll down, because I have many)
and see immediately all new incoming emails in the specific folders,
I have created, because the folders with the new emails
turn in bold letters.
So I have in some seconds the overview of all new emails arrived
and can now assess, which emails are important to me.

That is very handy for me, because I am a "graphical person",
I like a graphical overview.

Is that also achievable in GNUS?
with groups?

Kind regards

Gottfried


Am 24.12.24 um 17:48 schrieb Christopher Howard:
> gfp <gfp@posteo.at> writes:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> thanks for answering me.
>>
>> I need a graphical view of folders, because I have created approx. 100
>> folders and put every email via filters in those folders.
>> So I can quickly find messages related to some specific topic or addresses.
>>
>> I don't know at the moment how could I achieve that in Emacs.
>> Secondly I am learning Emacs and am not yet in a stage to do
>> everything via keybindings.
>> I also don't know how much time it would need to set up my e-mail
>> stuff in Emacs.
>> I used already so much time to learn Emacs and to set up something in
>> Emacs takes a lot of time, which I don´t have.
>> I read that to set up Gnus takes much time.
>>
> 
> There is a learning curve to Gnus, for sure, but the info manual is very helpful, and also there is a
> #gnus irc channel on libera that is helpful.
> 
> Gnus has something called "Groups" and a "Group Buffer". These groups can be thought of like folders, and through "splitting", incoming mail can be moved into various groups automatically based on subject, From addresses, and so forth. I use this for splitting mailing lists out into their own groups.
> 
> After that, you get more great things you can do with groups, like assigning levels of importance to groups. This way, you can choose to view only certain groups depending on, say, how much spare time you have a give moment. And within a group, you can filter out threads that are not of interest to you.
> 
> Further advantages of Gnus is (1) it integrates well with your other Emacs processes and configuration; and (2) you can use it to handle other kinds of messages, through various Gnus backends. E.g., nnatom and nnrss can be used to process Blog and News feeds.
> 
> Since you have some involvement in Emacs already, I would encourage giving more consideration to Gnus. It allows you to apply to the power of Emacs text processing and programmability to the whole notion of "processing news", which includes handling incoming e-mail messages, as well as various other sources of information.
> 


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Re: E-mail package

[Joel Reicher]

gfp <gfp@posteo.at> writes:

> When I opening Thunderbird, and I am connected to the internet, 
> I see all my folders (if I also scroll down, because I have 
> many) and see immediately all new incoming emails in the 
> specific folders, I have created, because the folders with the 
> new emails turn in bold letters.
> So I have in some seconds the overview of all new emails arrived 
> and can now assess, which emails are important to me.

The default view in Gnus is that for unread emails, but much more 
information can be added to the view as well.

> That is very handy for me, because I am a "graphical person", I 
> like a graphical overview.

What do you mean by "graphical"?

Regards,

        - Joel

Re: E-mail package

[Christopher Howard]

gfp <gfp@posteo.at> writes:

> When I opening Thunderbird, and I am connected to the internet,
> I see all my folders (if I also scroll down, because I have many)
> and see immediately all new incoming emails in the specific folders,
> I have created, because the folders with the new emails
> turn in bold letters.
> So I have in some seconds the overview of all new emails arrived
> and can now assess, which emails are important to me.
>
> That is very handy for me, because I am a "graphical person",
> I like a graphical overview.
>
> Is that also achievable in GNUS?
> with groups?
>

Hi, this should be doable but adjusting the group buffer format. See section 3.1 Group Buffer Format and in particular 3.1.3 Group Highlighting, to add color. Adjusting the formatting should also allow inserting unicode characters to get folder icons, though I haven't played with that.

So, that should be quite doable. By default, however, the Groups that have no unread messages will be hidden from view, so it is not necessary to highlight groups that have messages. The command gnus-group-list-all-groups (L) causes all groups to be visible. I expect there must be a Gnus variable that makes listing all groups to be the default, but I'm having trouble finding it.

-- 
Christopher Howard

Re: E-mail package

[gfp]

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Hi Joel,

Sorry, I am not good at explaining in English what I want.

> What do you mean by "graphical"?

I mean to have an overview about all folders.
Folders of unread messages and also of read messages.
Somehow everything at once. In my opinion I can assess better what´s 
going on, from whom I got a new email, and from whom I didn´t get one.
But that´s my view at the moment. I am not used seeing only new emails.
May be I can adjust to it at some stage.

thanks for help

Gottfried


Am 26.12.24 um 07:27 schrieb Joel Reicher:
> gfp <gfp@posteo.at> writes:
> 
>> When I opening Thunderbird, and I am connected to the internet, I see 
>> all my folders (if I also scroll down, because I have many) and see 
>> immediately all new incoming emails in the specific folders, I have 
>> created, because the folders with the new emails turn in bold letters.
>> So I have in some seconds the overview of all new emails arrived and 
>> can now assess, which emails are important to me.
> 
> The default view in Gnus is that for unread emails, but much more 
> information can be added to the view as well.
> 
>> That is very handy for me, because I am a "graphical person", I like a 
>> graphical overview.
> 
> What do you mean by "graphical"?
> 
> Regards,
> 
>         - Joel



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Re: E-mail package

[tpeplt]

gfp <gfp@posteo.at> writes:

> Hi Joel,
>
> Sorry, I am not good at explaining in English what I want.
>
>> What do you mean by "graphical"?
>
> I mean to have an overview about all folders.
> Folders of unread messages and also of read messages.
> Somehow everything at once. In my opinion I can assess better what´s
> going on, from whom I got a new email, and from whom I didn´t get one.
> But that´s my view at the moment. I am not used seeing only new emails.
> May be I can adjust to it at some stage.
>
> thanks for help
>
> Gottfried

If you have not already, then you might want to skim through the chapter
of Emacs built-in email client, RMAIL.  It is included in the Emacs user
manual and can be read by evaluating the following expression in Emacs:

   (info "(emacs) Rmail")

Or, type C-h r to begin reading the Emacs user manual, and then type ‘g’
to display the "Go to node: " prompt, and then type rmail and press the
Return/Enter key.  The Labels, Attrs, and Summary sections might
describe a solution that you could use.

-- 
The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.
- Geoffrey Chaucer, The Parliament of Birds.

Re: E-mail package

[Eric S Fraga]

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Response below/inline for email gfp wrote:
> (original email sent 25 Dec 2024 at 09:22)
> 
> When I opening Thunderbird, and I am connected to the internet,
> I see all my folders (if I also scroll down, because I have many)
> and see immediately all new incoming emails in the specific folders,
> I have created, because the folders with the new emails
> turn in bold letters.

[...]

> Is that also achievable in GNUS?
> with groups?

Yes, the "Group" buffer will show all groups (folders in your speak)
that have unread messages (with the number of unread indicated) or it
can be configure so that it shows all groups with or without unread
messages.

Attached is a little screenshot of part of the view of my Groups buffer.
The *in the emacs help line is indicating that I am currently visiting
that group (and actually responding to a post there, i.e. this post that
I am writing at the moment).

-- 
Eric S Fraga via gnus (Emacs 31.0.50 2024-12-17) on Debian 12.8

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Re: E-mail package

[Eric S Fraga]

Response below/inline for email Christopher Howard wrote:
> (original email sent 26 Dec 2024 at 07:28)
> 
> I expect there must be a Gnus variable that makes listing all groups
> to be the default, but I'm having trouble finding it.

I don't know about making all visible (as L will do that) but you can
individually set the "permanently visible" option for any group (using
"G c" in the Group buffer on the individual group you wish to show all
the time).

-- 
Eric S Fraga via gnus (Emacs 31.0.50 2024-12-17) on Debian 12.8

Re: E-mail package

[divya]

> If you have not already, then you might want to skim through the 
> chapter
> of Emacs built-in email client, RMAIL.  It is included in the Emacs 
> user
> manual and can be read by evaluating the following expression in Emacs:
> 
>    (info "(emacs) Rmail")
> 
> Or, type C-h r to begin reading the Emacs user manual, and then type 
> ‘g’
> to display the "Go to node: " prompt, and then type rmail and press the
> Return/Enter key.  The Labels, Attrs, and Summary sections might
> describe a solution that you could use.

I've always wondered how Gnus differs from Rmail, if one were to use the 
latter over the former what advantages would one have, and what can one 
might miss?

Regards,
Divya Ranjan

Re: E-mail package

[Bob Newell]

On Fri, Dec 27, 2024, at 17:38, divya@subvertising.org wrote:

> I've always wondered how Gnus differs from Rmail, if one were to use the 
> latter over the former what advantages would one have, and what can one 
> might miss?

Many others can answer this too, but I'll keep it simple.  Rmail is a basic client that works fine for basic use.  There is nothing at all wrong with it.

However, Gnus is infinitely extensible and customizable, at the cost of a rather extended learning curve compared to other clients, and what can be a significant amount of work.  But there are set-up guides and the customization and learning can be extended over time while still getting useful results.

You can do nearly anything with Gnus.  I've used it now for well over 15 years.  It took a little while at first to tame the beast, but it's become irreplacable and indispensible to my workflow.

Bob Newell
Honolulu

Re: E-mail package

[Joel Reicher]

divya@subvertising.org writes:

>> If you have not already, then you might want to skim through 
>> the chapter of Emacs built-in email client, RMAIL.  It is 
>> included in the Emacs user manual and can be read by evaluating 
>> the following expression in Emacs:
>>    (info "(emacs) Rmail")
>> Or, type C-h r to begin reading the Emacs user manual, and then 
>> type ‘g’ to display the "Go to node: " prompt, and then type 
>> rmail and press the Return/Enter key.  The Labels, Attrs, and 
>> Summary sections might describe a solution that you could use.
>
> I've always wondered how Gnus differs from Rmail, if one were to 
> use the latter over the former what advantages would one have, 
> and what can one might miss?

In my opinion the biggest difference is the mail storage 
support. AFAIK Rmail really only has one type: its own files. It 
depends on external programs to move or copy messages across from 
other types, both local and remote.

Gnus even just for mail is quite different on that front: (info 
"(gnus) Mail Source Specifiers").

But  Gnus also (mostly) unifies the news and mail reading 
experience, treating news as just another kind of message storage.

Regards,

        - Joel