From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Feeling lost without tabs Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 01:57:54 +0200 Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Message-ID: <87fvhtndz1.fsf@debian.uxu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1406073631 32000 80.91.229.3 (23 Jul 2014 00:00:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 00:00:31 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 23 02:00:25 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1X9jyp-0002TF-EV for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 02:00:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42106 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1X9jyo-0001GA-WE for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 20:00:23 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!goblin3!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 101 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: SIvZRMPqRkkTHAHL6NkRuw.user.speranza.aioe.org Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Cancel-Lock: sha1:nDIWbCigC8N57AQGUH7ZAB+po4g= Mail-Copies-To: never Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:206641 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:98915 Archived-At: Robert Thorpe writes: > As I said, three of the buffer menus mentioned are > really the same: buffer-menu, > buffer-menu-other-window and list-buffers. One, > electric-buffer-list is a keymap variant that depends > on the other. That's not really much repetition. Again, I didn't examine the code so this is more a discussion of principles. I'm happy people are active with Emacs but from the little we have heard of the differences between those tools, and the nature of those tools (the task they set out to solve), it is my impression this is optimally something that should be kept at configuration-basis within a single tool. > Personally, I like that they've kept the old ones > around because I'm used to them, as I expect a lot of > users are. Of course, the old one, whichever that is, should be kept, only extended, not forked, preferably. If it were extended too much for oldtimers, it could be extended even more, with an --oldtimer option so it would look just the same, the upstart stuff brought out of action and made invisible. > That said, ibuffer is separate. In other areas of > Emacs this problem is worse. For example there are > four code-folding systems and they're all separate (a > simple one in simple.el, hide-show-mode, > outline-minor-mode and allout-mode). Probably unavoidable for a project of this scale, but in the case of the buffer lists, it seems like a case where it could have been avoided, and probably more easily than many other cases that aren't as straightforward in purpose and presentation... > I don't like the profliteration of different browsers > and email systems either. Here, I'm ambivalent. Personally I would never want to do such a project because it would take years and it would be very uncertain if it would ever reach a level where people would use it. For all that time, it would be almost embarrassing to use/develop it as there would be so many better alternatives around. Still, in but a few of all those projects, a level of some humpty-dumpty parity with the other such software is reached. In the Linux world for example Emacs and vim, tmux and screen, zsh and bash, Firefox and Opera, Perl and Python... At that point I say it's healthy to have such competition. So in the few cases when you end up with a solid piece of software, I don't mind there are other such solid pieces at all. Here, it is rather that those cases are very few and it is a waste of time for all that don't get that and are totally unrealistic in their efforts. But to make a variant of the buffer list is as we have seen not unrealistic, so for that situation, the question is rather: were do I put my efforts do the best use? Here, I don't think having many alternatives are healthy competition, it is just fragmentation. (But it is not a cardinal sin. I'm happy whenever people are active.) > I'm not going to complain too much though, because > I'm not doing anything about it. In lots of these > cases it happene because the features started off as > independently developed libraries and were added into > Emacs later. Yes, as long as it is great stuff I don't mind anything being added. > Sometimes having a set of different functions that do > things slightly differently is the way that Emacs > provides for customization. To give another example, > C-j will make a newline and indent the next line. > There's a function called > reindent-then-newline-and-indent which can be used > instead by remapping it to C-j. ...what? > I like that, I think using different colours is > useful. Yes, that's something I miss from the default Emacs, from dired not the least. It should be put to extensive use but not as amateur configuration. Gnus also looked very boring at first but was (contrary to dired) configurable as there are so many gnus- and message- faces. -- underground experts united