From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: emacs stackexchange beta site Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 16:47:41 +0200 Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Message-ID: <87fvfmtkky.fsf@debian.uxu> References: <874mw5q15w.fsf@debian.uxu> <87a95wy73q.fsf@debian.uxu> <8761gkdto0.fsf@panda.goosenet.in> <87fvfncugw.fsf@panda.goosenet.in> <87vboibyye.fsf@panda.goosenet.in> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1411224624 18029 80.91.229.3 (20 Sep 2014 14:50:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:50:24 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 20 16:50:19 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XVLzP-0007ym-DW for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 16:50:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34911 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XVLzO-0004Ho-S6 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:50:18 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 85 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: P0uMB9BthHuWo8+BJXB4Mw.user.speranza.aioe.org Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Cancel-Lock: sha1:gBjOf7Hg/DWFLDveyIOjhAl9//o= Mail-Copies-To: never Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:207794 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:100068 Archived-At: Udyant Wig writes: > Is there no way out of this mess? No. Just live and be active. Don't waste your very short time in the sun. > [IIRC, once you outlined the difference (in > comp.lang.lisp) between a world (such as the original > ARPANET) where each person has his own mail server > and one (such as ours) wherein everyone used a single > mail server (like the one for Google Mail.) I think > you gave the example of Minitel. That sounds like an interesting post. Perhaps you or the OP can provide a URL or downright yank it here? Anyway, your (Mr. Wig) description of the Internet is somewhat but not entirely correct. The internet is distributed. Google Mail (Gmail) is an interface (i.e., a client, a web client) but Google also stores the mails themselves. If you, on the other hand, use a client that is a program on your computer - e.g., Gnus - you have your own mails on the disk and you don't hand anything over to Google automatically, by using their interfaces and having them store your mails. However, if you send mails to people with Gmail mails, your mails end up in their inboxes. When they quote you in their replies, what you write is stored that way, as well. So there is no escape - but not using Gmail still makes a huge difference (for the better) if you are concerned with this issue (as for me, I'm aware of it, not exactly concerned; I use Gnus mainly because I think it is a much better interface and more powerful client; and, it makes sense for me to have all the mails myself as I often use the Linux shell tools on them, collectively, as they are represented 1 message = 1 file). Read this, if you like: http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/google-has-most-of-my-email-because-it-has-all-of-yours Off topic, but still a good opportunity to ask: how do you reference a Usenet (NNTP) post? I take it there are web archives - I only know of Google Groups (if you don't count those that archive specific mailing lists). The coolest thing would be to get the post straight in Gnus or whatever news client, and that shouldn't be that difficult for posts that are still on the newsserver (I don't know for how long they are stored; I use Aioe.org). Actually, I'm on comp.lang.lisp though I very seldom read it because I don't do CL or Scheme or anything but Elisp actually. > So, now, instead of an N * M network we have an N * 1 > network. Not exactly but it sure feels like that. > This may or may not be relevant. Relevant! > I suppose that the end is a good one, even though not > all the new users will stay on to become better than > newbies, and fewer experts. They won't. No one believes that. It is like a book in the public library on Debian or Fedora. No one will read it for several years and then some guy stumbles upon it when browsing the shelf for a book on game programming in C++ (perhaps C# those days). That guy then becomes a Linux user and forgets about stupid games. That makes it worth it and that is why the library board shouldn't throw that book away, or else...! -- underground experts united