From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Joseph Brenner Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: line-move-visual Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 19:19:31 -0700 Message-ID: <87eig71zyk.fsf@kzsu.stanford.edu> References: <87pr07qjio.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> <878w6vq7ew.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> <871vcmhq79.fsf@wivenhoe.ul.ie> <580d5f23-e251-483f-9752-7e77b1ca2fb7@40g2000pry.googlegroups.com> <2a7dc148-e2cc-4681-9d8c-ccd1140aa6d7@j36g2000prj.googlegroups.com> <089883ee-0a63-4cb4-a0ec-d2fe4e71cc03@y18g2000prn.googlegroups.com> <87wruco5yq.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87wrubfd8p.fsf@rapttech.com.au> <848w6ndwn0.fsf@cs.bham.ac.uk> <87y6ekevet.fsf@rapttech.com.au> <87bpbgq32f.fsf@unm.edu> <87hbl857xp.fsf@kzsu.stanford.edu> <87fx0rw76d.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1291836231 2503 80.91.229.12 (8 Dec 2010 19:23:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 19:23:51 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 08 20:23:44 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PQPc7-0007uY-Ct for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 20:23:43 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37186 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PQPc6-0006Sb-JC for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 14:23:42 -0500 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!news1.google.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.posted.rawbandwidth!news.posted.rawbandwidth.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 21:19:15 -0500 Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:As70chMHxZzq7nPAvSrsqRWrnzc= Original-Lines: 39 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.144.208.84 Original-X-Trace: sv3-sajC3lVRNyfAnc/QFLtYseXBN5hY6zF70SSPCK+YygDHMP2TXwldAaCQD+slTy3wmpaVI2fsiBSmysp!nKGp6ckdATPUK4M4RrfiClvWQerloVXdd+sqJw6BRbuX+90njBBchRc44L+mO8Wfk+j9C2LqicM= X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:178987 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:75881 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > Joseph Brenner writes: >> If we really can't convince the developers that they need to respect >> backwards compatibility, an actual solution to the problem might >> be something like creating a switch that needs to be flipped on to >> get the new whizzy behavior, something like: >> >> (setq modernize-emacs t) >> >> You then recommend that the default ~/.emacs for *new* users should >> include that line. > > That means that new users live in a separate universe where they can't > expect older users to be able to help them with their setup and usage > problems. Because the older users don't even have a clue about what new > users might be working with. Yes, and if I'd thought about that issue at all, I might've said something like: Doing something like this would be far better than the current practices, though it's obviously not perfect. Problems include: o A third-party developer may be suprised by the need to ask users not to flip on "modernize-emacs", and may have to write code to shut it off and live with some user confusion when the "modernized" behavior goes away temporarily. o It's effectively a project fork that at the very least complicates documentation and testing. > "In your face" is a strategy where people actually get to see things > and make a conscious decision about keeping or leaving them. They can also make a conscious decision about dropping an unstable piece of software.