* Re: Emacs for mail: VM - WL - GNUS [not found] <mailman.7.1290330553.29710.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2010-11-21 17:25 ` Alan 2010-11-22 16:01 ` Elena 2011-02-22 22:56 ` Uday Reddy 2 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Alan @ 2010-11-21 17:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs On Nov 21, 3:09 am, James Freer <jesseja...@googlemail.com> wrote: > I'm just starting to use emacs for editing and thought about using it > for email as well. I'm a moderator for several groups and have found > Thunderbird a bit slow. I'm hoping that a text email may be quicker. I > tried Cone and Mutt a while ago. I need to use imap and was wondering > if i'd be better off with emacs addons. > > What are folk using WL or VM? I've read the gnus pdf and i think i'd > be better off with one of those two. > > As for installing: > WL seems ok to followhttp://box.matto.nl/emacsgmail.html > > VM i find a little heavy! for my knowledge - is there another site > which is easier to follow for a newbiehttp://www.wonderworks.com/vm/user-manual/vm_2.html#SEC5http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ViewMailAndImap > > thanks > james I'm a VM user on XEmacs. I wasn't even aware of Wanderlust until reading your post. I used to use Rmail with Emacs 19.34 on a Unix machine, but then moved to XEmacs and eventually started using VM. I now use a laptop at home and a desktop at work, both running Windows XP (very rarely logging into a Unix machine). VM understands the babyl mail folder organization that Rmail used at the time, so that was a feature that I appreciated. The newsgroup gnu.emacs.vm.info is moderately active and the current VM developers are active there. I use VM with an imap server at work. That was changed to use SSL and I had to resort to using stunnel with VM to continue. A VM feature that I find to be quite handy is a function "vm-delete-duplicate-messages". This allows me to combine multiple mail folders (e.g. folder at home and folder at work) and eliminate duplicate mail messages. I've even converted my old CompuServe emails to a VM mail folder. When desired I can read my Thunderbird email folders with VM. I go back and forth between using Thunderbird and VM with my work IMAP server (favoring Thunderbird for emails with embedded HTML tags). My personal email is on a Yahoo POP server and I mostly use Thunderbird for that. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs for mail: VM - WL - GNUS [not found] <mailman.7.1290330553.29710.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2010-11-21 17:25 ` Emacs for mail: VM - WL - GNUS Alan @ 2010-11-22 16:01 ` Elena 2011-02-22 22:56 ` Uday Reddy 2 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Elena @ 2010-11-22 16:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs On 21 Nov, 09:09, James Freer <jesseja...@googlemail.com> wrote: > I tried Cone and Mutt a while ago. You can run Mutt inside Emacs. I don't remember if you have to download a third-party package. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs for mail: VM - WL - GNUS [not found] <mailman.7.1290330553.29710.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2010-11-21 17:25 ` Emacs for mail: VM - WL - GNUS Alan 2010-11-22 16:01 ` Elena @ 2011-02-22 22:56 ` Uday Reddy 2011-02-23 9:20 ` James Freer ` (2 more replies) 2 siblings, 3 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Uday Reddy @ 2011-02-22 22:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs On 11/21/2010 9:09 AM, James Freer wrote: > VM i find a little heavy! for my knowledge - is there another site > which is easier to follow for a newbie > http://www.wonderworks.com/vm/user-manual/vm_2.html#SEC5 > http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ViewMailAndImap Hi, I haven't checked this newsgroup for a while, and just noticed that there were queries about VM here. I rewrote to EmacsWiki page on ViewMailAndImap to make it easier. Please try it and let me have any comments. It is not hard, really. Just a bit of detail. For the next release of VM, I am planning to introduce the URL syntax for IMAP folders, which is now pretty much standardized. That should make things easier still. For queries on VM, you would better of writing them or cross-posting to gnu.emacs.vm.info newsgroup, which gets monitored much more regularly. Cheers, Uday Reddy ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs for mail: VM - WL - GNUS 2011-02-22 22:56 ` Uday Reddy @ 2011-02-23 9:20 ` James Freer 2011-02-23 16:29 ` trebol55555 [not found] ` <mailman.10.1298452864.1135.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2011-02-24 10:25 ` Uday Reddy 2 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: James Freer @ 2011-02-23 9:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Uday Reddy; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs On 22 February 2011 22:56, Uday Reddy <uDOTsDOTreddy@cs.bham.ac.uk> wrote: > On 11/21/2010 9:09 AM, James Freer wrote: > >> VM i find a little heavy! for my knowledge - is there another site >> which is easier to follow for a newbie >> http://www.wonderworks.com/vm/user-manual/vm_2.html#SEC5 >> http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ViewMailAndImap > > Hi, I haven't checked this newsgroup for a while, and just noticed that > there were queries about VM here. > > I rewrote to EmacsWiki page on ViewMailAndImap to make it easier. Please try > it and let me have any comments. It is not hard, really. Just a bit of > detail. For the next release of VM, I am planning to introduce the URL > syntax for IMAP folders, which is now pretty much standardized. That should > make things easier still. > > For queries on VM, you would better of writing them or cross-posting to > gnu.emacs.vm.info newsgroup, which gets monitored much more regularly. > > Cheers, > Uday Reddy > Many thanks for the suggestion. I have to say that i don't find emacs particularly user friendly... i get the impression that it's intended to be like that - even after one's gone and bought the book. I did look into offlineimap but again i haven't found it easy to follow. james ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs for mail: VM - WL - GNUS 2011-02-23 9:20 ` James Freer @ 2011-02-23 16:29 ` trebol55555 0 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: trebol55555 @ 2011-02-23 16:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: James Freer; +Cc: Uday Reddy, help-gnu-emacs James Freer <jessejazza@googlemail.com> writes: > Many thanks for the suggestion. I have to say that i don't find emacs > particularly user friendly... i get the impression that it's intended > to be like that - even after one's gone and bought the book. I did > look into offlineimap but again i haven't found it easy to follow. > > james Emacs is more or less a lisp interpreter. The basic macros that are part of emacs are "newbie" user friendly (In fact there are a lot of buttons, menus an other things which a experiment user never use). When you try make other things a little more sophisticated like fetch your mail, people who write docs think you already have experience with emacs configurations. The wiki is good, the docs are good, and both are user friendly (not "newbie" user friendly, it's impossible). I think the best way (just for me...) to fetch mail from a external server is download it with fetchmail, filtered it with procmail, and read it with gnus. Gnus can fetch the mail directly but this method is slowly (when you open gnus, you must wait for the connect-identification-download-filter process). Gnus is a big toy with a lot of functionalyties, so if you are new in emacs and just read the manual, you'll shoot your head, not your foot. If you want, send me a private mail with a fictitious data (imap or pop server, user id, password, and smtp server if you want send mail via external server) and I will send you all the information necessary to get a working MTA & MUA with this applications and emacs-gnus. More possibilities you want, more configurations you must do! At first is slowly... and hard... and bored... very bored... But when you start to walk a little more fast, oooh, you don't want do anything outside emacs! So don't give up! Best wishes, Trebol. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
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* Re: Emacs for mail: VM - WL - GNUS [not found] ` <mailman.10.1298452864.1135.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2011-02-24 10:11 ` Uday Reddy 2011-02-24 12:18 ` Jonathan Groll ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Uday Reddy @ 2011-02-24 10:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs On 2/23/2011 9:20 AM, James Freer wrote: > Many thanks for the suggestion. I have to say that i don't find emacs > particularly user friendly... i get the impression that it's intended > to be like that - even after one's gone and bought the book. I did > look into offlineimap but again i haven't found it easy to follow. Oh, sorry, I didn't realize that you were an Emacs newbie. Then the first thing to do would be to get comfortable with using Emacs. You need to give it some time, perhaps a month, reading the manual and trying things out. You will definitely need to put in more effort than for the "user friendly" tools you allude to. But, hopefully, in the end, you would have mastered a tool that can make you much more productive in your daily tasks. VM was designed for people that already use Emacs. That said, we do seem to have some users that have picked up VM without being habitual Emacs users. They probably came in during the 80's and 90's when there weren't any easier tools like Thunderbird. And, they probably also got a lot of help from the gnu.emacs.vm.info newsgroup to get things set up. If you are still trying to decide between VM-WL-GNUS, then my opinion is that VM fits somewhere in the middle between WL and GNUS. Its advantage is that it inter-operates with Thunderbird, as Alan mentioned already. So, you can switch back and forth between VM and Thunderbird. It is also possibly more "powerful" than WL while being easier than GNUS. Cheers, Uday ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs for mail: VM - WL - GNUS 2011-02-24 10:11 ` Uday Reddy @ 2011-02-24 12:18 ` Jonathan Groll 2011-02-24 18:49 ` Ted Zlatanov [not found] ` <mailman.5.1298549913.32492.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Jonathan Groll @ 2011-02-24 12:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 10:11:11 +0000, Uday Reddy <uDOTsDOTreddy@cs.bham.ac.uk> wrote: > If you are still trying to decide between VM-WL-GNUS, then my opinion > is that VM fits somewhere in the middle between WL and GNUS. Its > advantage is that it inter-operates with Thunderbird, as Alan > mentioned already. So, you can switch back and forth between VM and > Thunderbird. It is also possibly more "powerful" than WL while being > easier than GNUS. In what ways do you think it is more "powerful" than WL? Cheers, Jonathan -- jjg: Jonathan J. Groll : groll co za has_one { :blog => "http://bloggroll.com" } Sent from my computer device which runs on free software ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs for mail: VM - WL - GNUS 2011-02-24 10:11 ` Uday Reddy 2011-02-24 12:18 ` Jonathan Groll @ 2011-02-24 18:49 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-02-28 10:50 ` Andrea Crotti [not found] ` <mailman.5.1298890221.24467.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> [not found] ` <mailman.5.1298549913.32492.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2 siblings, 2 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-02-24 18:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 10:11:11 +0000 Uday Reddy <uDOTsDOTreddy@cs.bham.ac.uk> wrote: UR> If you are still trying to decide between VM-WL-GNUS, then my opinion UR> is that VM fits somewhere in the middle between WL and GNUS. Its UR> advantage is that it inter-operates with Thunderbird, as Alan UR> mentioned already. So, you can switch back and forth between VM and UR> Thunderbird. It is also possibly more "powerful" than WL while being UR> easier than GNUS. GNUS is not in use anymore (it's an old abandoned project). You probably mean "Gnus." Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs for mail: VM - WL - GNUS 2011-02-24 18:49 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-02-28 10:50 ` Andrea Crotti [not found] ` <mailman.5.1298890221.24467.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Andrea Crotti @ 2011-02-28 10:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes: > > GNUS is not in use anymore (it's an old abandoned project). You > probably mean "Gnus." > > Ted And by the way what's the difference between no-gnus and Gnus? And what is the version included in emacs 23.2 then? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
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* Re: Emacs for mail: VM - WL - GNUS [not found] ` <mailman.5.1298890221.24467.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2011-02-28 17:12 ` Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-02-28 17:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 11:50:16 +0100 Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> wrote: AC> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes: >> >> GNUS is not in use anymore (it's an old abandoned project). You >> probably mean "Gnus." AC> And by the way what's the difference between no-gnus and Gnus? "No Gnus" is the currently in-development version of Gnus. AC> And what is the version included in emacs 23.2 then? It was a snapshot of No Gnus at the time, IIRC. I didn't handle the release and I don't recall the details, sorry. Some details are in http://gnus.org/history.html and some aren't. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
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* Re: Emacs for mail: VM - WL - GNUS [not found] ` <mailman.5.1298549913.32492.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2011-02-24 21:11 ` Uday Reddy 0 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Uday Reddy @ 2011-02-24 21:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Jonathan Groll wrote: > > In what ways do you think it is more "powerful" than WL? Oh, don't hold me to that please. I haven't looked at Wanderlust in any great detail. For an impartial third party review of both, I refer you to about.com: http://email.about.com/cs/linuxclientrevs/gr/vm.htm http://email.about.com/cs/linuxclientrevs/gr/wanderlust.htm Looking at things feature by feature, it would seem that VM and Wanderlust are comparable, and Wanderlust might even have an edge because things like selective downloading of attachments and message expiration ideas are yet to be implemented in VM. The reviews are several years old, and I know that the comments on VM's IMAP support are not true any more. I would expect that Wanderlust might have advanced similarly as well. Cheers, Uday ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs for mail: VM - WL - GNUS 2011-02-22 22:56 ` Uday Reddy 2011-02-23 9:20 ` James Freer [not found] ` <mailman.10.1298452864.1135.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> @ 2011-02-24 10:25 ` Uday Reddy 2011-02-24 18:47 ` auth-source multiple accounts Ted Zlatanov 2 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Uday Reddy @ 2011-02-24 10:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs On 2/22/2011 10:56 PM, Uday Reddy wrote: > > For queries on VM, you would better of writing them or cross-posting to > gnu.emacs.vm.info newsgroup, which gets monitored much more regularly. I forgot to mention that there is also a mailing list viewmail-info@nongnu.org if you prefer mailing lists to newsgroups. It gets less used than the newsgroup, but at least the developers monitor it. Cheers, Uday ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: auth-source multiple accounts 2011-02-24 10:25 ` Uday Reddy @ 2011-02-24 18:47 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-02-24 21:13 ` Uday Reddy 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-02-24 18:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Uday, I tried posting and e-mailing this to you several times now. I hope you see it if I cross-post to the vminfo mailing list. The auth-source library has been much improved. Can you please take a look at the new `auth-source-search' function and see if it fits VM's needs as we discussed a while ago. Let me know if you want to discuss only on the vminfo list; I'll assume otherwise you'll reply to emacs-help. Here are the thread message IDs, all posted on this group under this subject. <370a1897-25aa-418f-9631-1570dfa99de3@z7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> <barmar-C56D33.00021721042010@news.eternal-september.org> <87633kaess.fsf@lifelogs.com> <8d7c78ee-6ba8-448a-8f86-3d585e1af77f@u32g2000vbc.googlegroups.com> <87vd8z2myy.fsf@lifelogs.com> <01ea3506-d715-491d-b360-3abf34e98013@i31g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> <87r5iq1hjk.fsf@lifelogs.com> <i2k762$rck$1@north.jnrs.ja.net> <87630211kx.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> <i2ku8g$53t$1@north.jnrs.ja.net> <87mxtdvx2d.fsf@lifelogs.com> <i2n4eh$q2f$1@north.jnrs.ja.net> <87pqy8vmah.fsf@lifelogs.com> <i2njfj$1fl$1@north.jnrs.ja.net> <87y6cvu53t.fsf@lifelogs.com> <i2q827$rvg$1@north.jnrs.ja.net> <8762smntzg.fsf@lifelogs.com> Thanks Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: auth-source multiple accounts 2011-02-24 18:47 ` auth-source multiple accounts Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-02-24 21:13 ` Uday Reddy 0 siblings, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Uday Reddy @ 2011-02-24 21:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Ted Zlatanov wrote: > Uday, I tried posting and e-mailing this to you several times now. I > hope you see it if I cross-post to the vminfo mailing list. Hi Ted, I have indeed received your email prompt a week or two ago, and I have it on my TO DO list to look at the new version of auth-source library. I will get back to you. Cheers, Uday ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* can emacs use the mac os x keychain? @ 2010-04-21 1:55 vm user 2010-04-21 4:02 ` Barry Margolin 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: vm user @ 2010-04-21 1:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs hi all, several emacs packages such as tramp and VM ask for passwords. does anyone know how to make emacs get the password from the mac os x keychain instead of having to type it every time? thanks... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: can emacs use the mac os x keychain? 2010-04-21 1:55 can emacs use the mac os x keychain? vm user @ 2010-04-21 4:02 ` Barry Margolin 2010-04-21 17:36 ` Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Barry Margolin @ 2010-04-21 4:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs In article <370a1897-25aa-418f-9631-1570dfa99de3@z7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, vm user <emacs_user@hotmail.com> wrote: > hi all, several emacs packages such as tramp and VM ask for > passwords. does anyone know how to make emacs get the password from > the mac os x keychain instead of having to type it every time? > thanks... If you're using tramp's ssh method, you can install SSHKeychain. -- Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu Arlington, MA *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me *** *** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group *** ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: can emacs use the mac os x keychain? 2010-04-21 4:02 ` Barry Margolin @ 2010-04-21 17:36 ` Ted Zlatanov 2010-04-23 2:18 ` vm user 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2010-04-21 17:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 00:02:17 -0400 Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote: BM> In article BM> <370a1897-25aa-418f-9631-1570dfa99de3@z7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, BM> vm user <emacs_user@hotmail.com> wrote: >> hi all, several emacs packages such as tramp and VM ask for >> passwords. does anyone know how to make emacs get the password from >> the mac os x keychain instead of having to type it every time? >> thanks... BM> If you're using tramp's ssh method, you can install SSHKeychain. Can this be called by other code? I could add support in auth-source.el to look in the OS X keychain. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: can emacs use the mac os x keychain? 2010-04-21 17:36 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2010-04-23 2:18 ` vm user [not found] ` <87vd8z2myy.fsf@lifelogs.com> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: vm user @ 2010-04-23 2:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs On Apr 21, 1:36 pm, Ted Zlatanov <t...@lifelogs.com> wrote: > On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 00:02:17 -0400 Barry Margolin <bar...@alum.mit.edu> wrote: > > BM> In article > BM> <370a1897-25aa-418f-9631-1570dfa99...@z7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, > BM> vm user <emacs_u...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > >> hi all, several emacs packages such as tramp and VM ask for > >> passwords. does anyone know how to make emacs get the password from > >> the mac os x keychain instead of having to type it every time? > >> thanks... > > BM> If you're using tramp's ssh method, you can install SSHKeychain. > > Can this be called by other code? I could add support in > auth-source.el to look in the OS X keychain. > > Ted does this mean that the keychain would be available to all emacs application using passwords? e.g. vm, tramp, epg... that would certainly be fantastic... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
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* Re: can emacs use the mac os x keychain? [not found] ` <87vd8z2myy.fsf@lifelogs.com> @ 2010-07-25 3:36 ` vm user 2010-07-26 13:47 ` Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: vm user @ 2010-07-25 3:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs; +Cc: tzz, barmar On Jul 1, 12:20 pm, Ted Zlatanov <t...@lifelogs.com> wrote: > (sorry for the long delay) > > On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 19:18:15 -0700 (PDT) vm user <emacs_u...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > vu> does this mean that the keychain would be available to all emacs > vu> application using passwords? e.g. vm, tramp, epg... that would > vu> certainly be fantastic... > > Sure. We (Michael Albinus, really) just added support for the Secrets > API, which is for Linux only, and auth-source is set up to handle > multiple source types already. > > On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 20:58:26 -0400 Barry Margolin <bar...@alum.mit.edu> wrote: > > BM> Here's the docuemntation of Apple's Keychain API: > > BM>http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Security/Referen... > > Unless there's a helper program or support inside Emacs (the latter is > unlikely IMO) it's not possible to query this API from within Emacs. > > Ted I am quite an ignorant in these things, but does the following help? http://log.scifihifi.com/post/55837387/simple-iphone-keychain-code ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: can emacs use the mac os x keychain? 2010-07-25 3:36 ` vm user @ 2010-07-26 13:47 ` Ted Zlatanov 2010-07-26 14:47 ` Uday S Reddy 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2010-07-26 13:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 20:36:18 -0700 (PDT) vm user <emacs_user@hotmail.com> wrote: vu> On Jul 1, 12:20 pm, Ted Zlatanov <t...@lifelogs.com> wrote: >> Unless there's a helper program or support inside Emacs (the latter is >> unlikely IMO) it's not possible to query this API from within Emacs. vu> I am quite an ignorant in these things, but does the following help? vu> http://log.scifihifi.com/post/55837387/simple-iphone-keychain-code That seems useful. I think auth-source needs a general protocol to talk to helper applications when Emacs itself doesn't support it. This can be tricky because of the security implications of passing passwords. EPG does it well but I don't know the specifics. So there's really three parts: 1) define a helper protocol to pass auth request parameters in the environment somehow 2) read the password back securely 3) write an implementation that works with the Mac OS X keychain Contributions welcome on all 3 items. I don't know if I'll have time soon to work on this, but feedback would certainly help. On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:09:30 +0100 Uday S Reddy <uDOTsDOTreddy@cs.bham.ac.uk> wrote: USR> Another question that I always wondered about. Does auth-source allow USR> for multiple logins on the same server/protocol combination? Not currently. The first one found is picked IIRC. I think it would make the UI significantly more complex to allow multiples and perhaps confuse users. The advanced users that need that can typically use aliases for the server name. Do you see a need for it? Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: can emacs use the mac os x keychain? 2010-07-26 13:47 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2010-07-26 14:47 ` Uday S Reddy [not found] ` <87630211kx.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Uday S Reddy @ 2010-07-26 14:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Ted Zlatanov wrote: > USR> Another question that I always wondered about. Does auth-source allow > USR> for multiple logins on the same server/protocol combination? > > Not currently. The first one found is picked IIRC. I think it would > make the UI significantly more complex to allow multiples and perhaps > confuse users. The advanced users that need that can typically use > aliases for the server name. Do you see a need for it? Yes, I think it is needed. Some people maintain multiple email accounts on ISP's like gmail, hotmail etc. In organizations, it is common for people to have a personal email account and, separately, one or more role-based or team email accounts (techsupport, sales, admissions, ...). I know that many novice users might find it hard to deal with it. But, gmail and hotmail are educating them fast. So, yes, restricting to single email accounts per server would be a serious limitation. I am not sure what you mean by UI getting complex. The only user interaction seems to be to ask for a passphrase. (There is a problem at the moment because it doesn't say passphrase for which auth-source. So, if somebody happens to use multiple auth-sources with different passphrases, they would be in trouble!) If you instead mean the API getting complex, one could call auth-source-user-or-password with '("login" "password") as the MODE and get back a list of results. A simple `assoc' would give the desired password. Cheers, Uday ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
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* Re: auth-source multiple accounts [not found] ` <87630211kx.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> @ 2010-07-26 21:21 ` Uday S Reddy 2010-07-27 14:06 ` Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Uday S Reddy @ 2010-07-26 21:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Ted Zlatanov wrote: > Maybe it's better to use auth-source-pick parameters, something like > (account "my-account-1") coupled with "account my-account-1" in the > netrc file. In Gnus we can do it since each server entry has its own > name which can be separate from the actual server address. Will that > work in VM, giving a logical name to each account? See auth-source-pick > and auth-source-user-or-password for the details; the query data format > is pretty simple thanks to Michael Albinus' help recently. I don't follow everything you say. We do have logical account names in VM. Are you saying that we could use them in the netrc file as the "machine", instead of the actual host name? We could. But I suppose the users will wonder why these things are supposed to be called "machines". But I am not sure how auth-source-pick can help with this problem. It seems like a way to pick a source file. Cheers, Uday ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: auth-source multiple accounts 2010-07-26 21:21 ` auth-source multiple accounts Uday S Reddy @ 2010-07-27 14:06 ` Ted Zlatanov 2010-07-27 17:19 ` Uday S Reddy 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2010-07-27 14:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:21:19 +0100 Uday S Reddy <uDOTsDOTreddy@cs.bham.ac.uk> wrote: USR> We do have logical account names in VM. Are you saying that we could USR> use them in the netrc file as the "machine", instead of the actual USR> host name? We could. But I suppose the users will wonder why these USR> things are supposed to be called "machines". I mean "machine" will still be the server name but VM will also pass an optional (account "xyz") query parameter to auth-source-user-or-password, which will find "account xyz" in the netrc file. I'll add another optional parameter QUERIES to auth-source-user-or-password. It will be an alist. When a query is not specified you'd still get the first match (thus it's backwards compatible). Does all that sound reasonable? USR> But I am not sure how auth-source-pick can help with this problem. It USR> seems like a way to pick a source file. Sorry, I made a mistake, just see auth-source-user-or-password. auth-source-pick deals with auth-source backends, which VM doesn't care about. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: auth-source multiple accounts 2010-07-27 14:06 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2010-07-27 17:19 ` Uday S Reddy 2010-07-27 17:59 ` Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Uday S Reddy @ 2010-07-27 17:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Ted Zlatanov wrote: > I mean "machine" will still be the server name but VM will also pass an > optional (account "xyz") query parameter to > auth-source-user-or-password, which will find "account xyz" in the netrc > file. > > I'll add another optional parameter QUERIES to > auth-source-user-or-password. It will be an alist. When a query is not > specified you'd still get the first match (thus it's backwards > compatible). Does all that sound reasonable? Adding a QUERIES parameter is good but I would urge you to allow (login "xyz") as a possible query. For looking up email passwords, the "account" attribute seems like an overkill. What would users put as their "account", if not their login id? Since they are already using the "login" parameter to write their login id, it seems like unnecessary duplication. Thanks for all your help! Cheers, Uday ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: auth-source multiple accounts 2010-07-27 17:19 ` Uday S Reddy @ 2010-07-27 17:59 ` Ted Zlatanov 2010-07-27 21:35 ` Uday S Reddy 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2010-07-27 17:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:19:13 +0100 Uday S Reddy <uDOTsDOTreddy@cs.bham.ac.uk> wrote: USR> Ted Zlatanov wrote: >> I mean "machine" will still be the server name but VM will also pass an >> optional (account "xyz") query parameter to >> auth-source-user-or-password, which will find "account xyz" in the netrc >> file. >> >> I'll add another optional parameter QUERIES to >> auth-source-user-or-password. It will be an alist. When a query is not >> specified you'd still get the first match (thus it's backwards >> compatible). Does all that sound reasonable? USR> Adding a QUERIES parameter is good but I would urge you to allow USR> (login "xyz") as a possible query. USR> For looking up email passwords, the "account" attribute seems like an USR> overkill. What would users put as their "account", if not their login USR> id? Since they are already using the "login" parameter to write their USR> login id, it seems like unnecessary duplication. I want to make it more generic with QUERIES since not every auth-source API user will want the login ID to be a query key. VM and Gnus have this kind of data hierarchy but url*.el doesn't, for example. I think that's a good compromise and doesn't extend the API too much. From VM you would pass me (k v) as the query, e.g. (login "xyz"). In the netrc/authinfo file, then, I would match only lines with .... login xyz .... in them. So the query key and value are a contract between the application and the user. auth-source is just a conduit. If VM standardizes on (login "xyz") then we'll add a VM-specific section to the auth.texi manual giving an example. For Gnus we'll probably use (server "xyz") because the Gnus configuration hierarchy is structured that way. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: auth-source multiple accounts 2010-07-27 17:59 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2010-07-27 21:35 ` Uday S Reddy [not found] ` <87y6cvu53t.fsf@lifelogs.com> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 22+ messages in thread From: Uday S Reddy @ 2010-07-27 21:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs On 7/27/2010 6:59 PM, Ted Zlatanov wrote: > > I want to make it more generic with QUERIES since not every auth-source > API user will want the login ID to be a query key. VM and Gnus have > this kind of data hierarchy but url*.el doesn't, for example. I think > that's a good compromise and doesn't extend the API too much. > > From VM you would pass me (k v) as the query, e.g. (login "xyz"). In > the netrc/authinfo file, then, I would match only lines with > > .... login xyz .... > > in them. So the query key and value are a contract between the > application and the user. auth-source is just a conduit. If VM > standardizes on (login "xyz") then we'll add a VM-specific section to > the auth.texi manual giving an example. For Gnus we'll probably use > (server "xyz") because the Gnus configuration hierarchy is structured > that way. Hi Ted, I am entirely in support of the general queries feature. as long it includes login-queries. However, there is another problem. (Sorry to be bringing up so many problems:-( I suppose auth-source is part of the Gnus distribution. Am I right? So, people are going to be using different versions of auth-source, obtained via the Gnus distribution, FSF distribution and XEmacs distribution (not to mention other independent distros). It will take years for all of these distributions to converge. So, I won't be able to use the new version of auth-source-user-or-password in VM until I can be sure that all our users have retired the old version. Sounds terrible, doesn't it? When we deal with independent distributions, it appears that backward-compatibility is not enough; forward-compatibility is also needed. One solution is to add a new function instead of adding an optional parameter to the existing function. Then I can test to see if the new function exists and use the querying functionality if it does. Cheers, Uday ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
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* Re: auth-source multiple accounts [not found] ` <87y6cvu53t.fsf@lifelogs.com> @ 2010-07-28 21:39 ` Uday S Reddy 2010-10-27 13:18 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-02-14 22:15 ` Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 2 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Uday S Reddy @ 2010-07-28 21:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs On 7/28/2010 2:07 PM, Ted Zlatanov wrote: > auth-source.el (specifically, auth-source-user-or-password) will work > either way. The new query parameter is optional so at worst the user > will get the wrong password. There will be no error. So you don't have > to give up on old versions. Just warn the user that the account won't > be part of the lookup. Yes, but, if I call auth-source-user-or-password with the extra parameter, and the user is using an old version of auth-source.el, there will be an error. But the version number idea is good. I can test for it before calling. Let me know when you have the new version ready so that I can test it along with VM. Cheers, Uday ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: auth-source multiple accounts 2010-07-28 21:39 ` Uday S Reddy @ 2010-10-27 13:18 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-02-14 22:15 ` Ted Zlatanov 1 sibling, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2010-10-27 13:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 22:39:11 +0100 Uday S Reddy <uDOTsDOTreddy@cs.bham.ac.uk> wrote: USR> On 7/28/2010 2:07 PM, Ted Zlatanov wrote: >> auth-source.el (specifically, auth-source-user-or-password) will work >> either way. The new query parameter is optional so at worst the user >> will get the wrong password. There will be no error. So you don't have >> to give up on old versions. Just warn the user that the account won't >> be part of the lookup. USR> Yes, but, if I call auth-source-user-or-password with the extra USR> parameter, and the user is using an old version of auth-source.el, USR> there will be an error. But the version number idea is good. I can USR> test for it before calling. USR> Let me know when you have the new version ready so that I can test it USR> along with VM. Please see my auth-source API proposal in the Gnus 'ding' mailing list or in the Tramp mailing list. I need to know if you find it acceptable to resolve the multiple account issue. Thanks Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
* Re: auth-source multiple accounts 2010-07-28 21:39 ` Uday S Reddy 2010-10-27 13:18 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-02-14 22:15 ` Ted Zlatanov 1 sibling, 0 replies; 22+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2011-02-14 22:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs; +Cc: u.s.reddy On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 22:39:11 +0100 Uday S Reddy <uDOTsDOTreddy@cs.bham.ac.uk> wrote: USR> On 7/28/2010 2:07 PM, Ted Zlatanov wrote: >> auth-source.el (specifically, auth-source-user-or-password) will work >> either way. The new query parameter is optional so at worst the user >> will get the wrong password. There will be no error. So you don't have >> to give up on old versions. Just warn the user that the account won't >> be part of the lookup. USR> Yes, but, if I call auth-source-user-or-password with the extra USR> parameter, and the user is using an old version of auth-source.el, USR> there will be an error. But the version number idea is good. I can USR> test for it before calling. USR> Let me know when you have the new version ready so that I can test it USR> along with VM. There's a much improved `auth-source-search' function in Emacs now. I think it will do what you need, and you can simply check if it exists and fall back on `auth-source-user-or-password' otherwise. The docstring is as complete as I could make it and I hope it answers any questions. Thanks Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 22+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2011-02-28 17:12 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 22+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <mailman.7.1290330553.29710.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2010-11-21 17:25 ` Emacs for mail: VM - WL - GNUS Alan 2010-11-22 16:01 ` Elena 2011-02-22 22:56 ` Uday Reddy 2011-02-23 9:20 ` James Freer 2011-02-23 16:29 ` trebol55555 [not found] ` <mailman.10.1298452864.1135.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2011-02-24 10:11 ` Uday Reddy 2011-02-24 12:18 ` Jonathan Groll 2011-02-24 18:49 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-02-28 10:50 ` Andrea Crotti [not found] ` <mailman.5.1298890221.24467.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2011-02-28 17:12 ` Ted Zlatanov [not found] ` <mailman.5.1298549913.32492.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> 2011-02-24 21:11 ` Uday Reddy 2011-02-24 10:25 ` Uday Reddy 2011-02-24 18:47 ` auth-source multiple accounts Ted Zlatanov 2011-02-24 21:13 ` Uday Reddy 2010-04-21 1:55 can emacs use the mac os x keychain? vm user 2010-04-21 4:02 ` Barry Margolin 2010-04-21 17:36 ` Ted Zlatanov 2010-04-23 2:18 ` vm user [not found] ` <87vd8z2myy.fsf@lifelogs.com> 2010-07-25 3:36 ` vm user 2010-07-26 13:47 ` Ted Zlatanov 2010-07-26 14:47 ` Uday S Reddy [not found] ` <87630211kx.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> 2010-07-26 21:21 ` auth-source multiple accounts Uday S Reddy 2010-07-27 14:06 ` Ted Zlatanov 2010-07-27 17:19 ` Uday S Reddy 2010-07-27 17:59 ` Ted Zlatanov 2010-07-27 21:35 ` Uday S Reddy [not found] ` <87y6cvu53t.fsf@lifelogs.com> 2010-07-28 21:39 ` Uday S Reddy 2010-10-27 13:18 ` Ted Zlatanov 2011-02-14 22:15 ` Ted Zlatanov
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