Re: How to cite the Emacs and Calc manuals?

Re: How to cite the Emacs and Calc manuals?

[Emanuel Berg]

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:

> Hi there,
>
> as in the subject. (I want to offer some BSc thesis
> topics based on Emacs Calc, and I am required by my
> faculty to give not only the proposed title, but also
> some literature on the subject.)

Do you cite that differently from other books?

I know you know Biblatex:

    @Book{dyson,
    author = {Peter Dyson},
    title = {The Unix Desk Reference: The hu.man Pages},
    publisher = {SYBEX},
    year = 1996,
    ISBN = {0-7821-1658-2}}

By the way, I think it was gnuplot: the first time you
use it it outputs an entry just like that how to cite
it in a paper!

While I think that is a bit silly, software COULD come
with an option, e.g. --cite so you could output it
that way (and/or it could be mentioned in the man
page). Why not? It is easy to do and some people would
actually use it as well.

-- 
underground experts united

Re: How to cite the Emacs and Calc manuals?

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2014-12-29, at 06:04, Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> wrote:

> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:
>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> as in the subject. (I want to offer some BSc thesis
>> topics based on Emacs Calc, and I am required by my
>> faculty to give not only the proposed title, but also
>> some literature on the subject.)
>
> Do you cite that differently from other books?

Nope.  But:

- what is the author?  It says on the first page: "This manual, also
  written (mostly) by Dave Gillespie [...]" - so is it "Dave Gillespie"
  or "Dave Gillespie et al." or what?
- what is the year of publication?  It says on the first page:
  "Copyright (C) 1990-1991, 2001-2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc." -
  so is it 2013?
- what is the publisher?  I guess FSF, but they don't have it in their
  dead trees web page shop.
- not to mention the place of publishing (usually it's the name of a
  city).

So for me, it is not at all clear.

> I know you know Biblatex:
>
>     @Book{dyson,
>     author = {Peter Dyson},
>     title = {The Unix Desk Reference: The hu.man Pages},
>     publisher = {SYBEX},
>     year = 1996,
>     ISBN = {0-7821-1658-2}}

Well, I don't know very much about Biblatex, but an entry like that
would solve my problem, of course.  (Personally, I use amsrefs most of
the time.)

> By the way, I think it was gnuplot: the first time you
> use it it outputs an entry just like that how to cite
> it in a paper!
>
> While I think that is a bit silly, software COULD come
> with an option, e.g. --cite so you could output it
> that way (and/or it could be mentioned in the man
> page). Why not? It is easy to do and some people would
> actually use it as well.

+1.  At least the manuals (especially huge, well-written manuals like
the Calc's one) could contain information like that.

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: How to cite the Emacs and Calc manuals?

[Stefan Monnier]

> - what is the author?

Usually the question is "who", but admittedly, the "what" is also an
interesting question in this case.

>   It says on the first page: "This manual, also
>   written (mostly) by Dave Gillespie [...]" - so is it "Dave Gillespie"
>   or "Dave Gillespie et al." or what?

I think for Calc, "Dave Gillespie et al." would be fine, yes.

For the Emacs manual, OTOH, the authorship is a lot more diluted.
I guess you could opt for "Richard Stallman et al." and there wouldn't
be too many objections.

> - what is the year of publication?  It says on the first page:
> "Copyright (C) 1990-1991, 2001-2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc." -
> so is it 2013?

Pick the version Emacs whose manual you want to cite, then use the
release date of that version as the date of publication.

> - what is the publisher?  I guess FSF, but they don't have it in their
>   dead trees web page shop.

Yes, the publisher is the FSF, regardless if they only publish it
electronically.

> - not to mention the place of publishing (usually it's the name of a
>   city).

You can probably leave this blank.  If you really insist on choosing
a place, Boston would make some kind of sense.


        Stefan

Re: How to cite the Emacs and Calc manuals?

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2014-12-29, at 14:35, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:

>> - what is the author?
>
> Usually the question is "who", but admittedly, the "what" is also an
> interesting question in this case.

Oops.  My bad.  And I like to think that my English is not bad...

OTOH, given what Calc is, you're right: in this particular case, one
might wonder /what/ Dave Gillespie is.  “An alien” is one answer that
comes to mind; personally, I like to think of him as of a robot, in
Asimov's sense, so an entity who's been living (or maybe “functioning”?)
for a few thousand years, and working on Calc for the last five
centuries or so (having predicted – or been told by Hari Seldon – that
at some point, RMS will write Emacs).

;-)

>>   It says on the first page: "This manual, also
>>   written (mostly) by Dave Gillespie [...]" - so is it "Dave Gillespie"
>>   or "Dave Gillespie et al." or what?
>
> I think for Calc, "Dave Gillespie et al." would be fine, yes.

Thanks.

> For the Emacs manual, OTOH, the authorship is a lot more diluted.
> I guess you could opt for "Richard Stallman et al." and there wouldn't
> be too many objections.
>
>> - what is the year of publication?  It says on the first page:
>> "Copyright (C) 1990-1991, 2001-2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc." -
>> so is it 2013?
>
> Pick the version Emacs whose manual you want to cite, then use the
> release date of that version as the date of publication.

I didn’t think of it – good idea, thanks again!

>> - what is the publisher?  I guess FSF, but they don't have it in their
>>   dead trees web page shop.
>
> Yes, the publisher is the FSF, regardless if they only publish it
> electronically.

OK.

>> - not to mention the place of publishing (usually it's the name of a
>>   city).
>
> You can probably leave this blank.  If you really insist on choosing
> a place, Boston would make some kind of sense.

I don’t insist, I was just wondering.

>         Stefan

Thanks a lot!

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: How to cite the Emacs and Calc manuals?

[Emanuel Berg]

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:

> - what is the author? It says on the first page:
> "This manual, also written (mostly) by Dave
> Gillespie [...]" - so is it "Dave Gillespie" or
> "Dave Gillespie et al." or what? - what is the year
> of publication? It says on the first page:
> "Copyright (C) 1990-1991, 2001-2013 Free Software
> Foundation, Inc." - so is it 2013? - what is the
> publisher? I guess FSF, but they don't have it in
> their dead trees web page shop. - not to mention the
> place of publishing (usually it's the name of a
> city).

Look for an ISBN, the rest isn't a life-or-death
issue. Google the ISBN if you want to see what other
people wrote (how they filled in the blank).

> So for me, it is not at all clear.

Except for the ISBN, often it is not entirely
consistent. Because of the ISBN, I don't see that as a
problem, really.

>> By the way, I think it was gnuplot: the first time
>> you use it it outputs an entry just like that how
>> to cite it in a paper! While I think that is a bit
>> silly, software COULD come with an option, e.g.
>> --cite so you could output it that way (and/or it
>> could be mentioned in the man page). Why not? It is
>> easy to do and some people would actually use it as
>> well.
>
> +1. At least the manuals (especially huge,
> well-written manuals like the Calc's one) could
> contain information like that.

The reason they did it for gnuplot is that it is very
common for people to include such figures in papers
and books. The Emacs influence to world literature is
of course not as immediately obvious, but no doubt
huge by comparison. It is the dark druids alright.
They act but aren't seen...

-- 
underground experts united

How to cite the Emacs and Calc manuals?

[Marcin Borkowski]

Hi there,

as in the subject.  (I want to offer some BSc thesis topics based on
Emacs Calc, and I am required by my faculty to give not only the
proposed title, but also some literature on the subject.)

TIA,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University