Using the `Win' key as `Ctrl' in Emacs?

Using the `Win' key as `Ctrl' in Emacs?

[Xiaoyong Jin]

Hi, all!

I'm now learning to use Emacs and I got a problem about keyboard
layout that my Compaq notepad only have one `Ctrl' key on the left
and which is so aweful that emacs use a lot of key bindings with
the `Ctrl' key.

What I want is using the useless `win' key on the right.  Could
some one tell me how to do this?

I now use the xmodmap program to turn the Super_R key to the
control group.  And it can be use under most programs under X but
Emacs.

-- 

Simple is the best.  ;-)

Re: Using the `Win' key as `Ctrl' in Emacs?

[Gustaf Erikson]

Xiaoyong Jin <tootiny@163.com> writes:

> Hi, all!
>
> I'm now learning to use Emacs and I got a problem about keyboard
> layout that my Compaq notepad only have one `Ctrl' key on the left
> and which is so aweful that emacs use a lot of key bindings with
> the `Ctrl' key.
>
> What I want is using the useless `win' key on the right.  Could
> some one tell me how to do this?
>
> I now use the xmodmap program to turn the Super_R key to the
> control group.  And it can be use under most programs under X but
> Emacs.
>
> -- 
>
> Simple is the best.  ;-)

Have you tried mapping your caps lock key to Control?

It's the original and best configuration :-)

I think there's an option in XFree86 for this.

/g.

-- 
Gustaf Erikson *  mobile 0733387618 * http://symbiandiaries.com/gustaf

MS-Windows: A disgrace you can be proud of.

Re: Using the `Win' key as `Ctrl' in Emacs?

[Xiaoyong Jin]

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:30:35 +0200
Gustaf Erikson <gustafe+usenet@openbsd.agero.se> wrote:

> Xiaoyong Jin <tootiny@163.com> writes:
> 
> > Hi, all!
> >
> > I'm now learning to use Emacs and I got a problem about
> > keyboard layout that my Compaq notepad only have one `Ctrl'
> > key on the left and which is so aweful that emacs use a lot of
> > key bindings with the `Ctrl' key.
> >
> > What I want is using the useless `win' key on the right. 
> > Could some one tell me how to do this?
> >
> > I now use the xmodmap program to turn the Super_R key to the
> > control group.  And it can be use under most programs under X
> > but Emacs.
> >
> > -- 
> >
> > Simple is the best.  ;-)
> 
> Have you tried mapping your caps lock key to Control?
> 
> It's the original and best configuration :-)
> 
> I think there's an option in XFree86 for this.
> 
> /g.
> 
> -- 
> Gustaf Erikson *  mobile 0733387618 *
> http://symbiandiaries.com/gustaf
> 
> MS-Windows: A disgrace you can be proud of.

Now I'm using caps lock key as left Control as you suggested by
put these in my XF86Config file:
Section "InputDevice"
	Identifier  "Keyboard0"
	Driver      "keyboard"
	Option "XkbRules"   "xfree86"
	Option "XkbModel" "pc105"    
	Option "XkbLayout" "us"  
	Option  "XkbOptions" "ctrl:swapcaps"
EndSection

But I feel real awkward whenever I use the Control key.  For
example, I try to open a file using C-x C-f, but how could I use
my left hand to both press caps lock and x and proceed with caps
lock and f?

Is there anybody using this `original and best configuration'
could tell me how do you use it, such as which finger press which
key?

Perhaps this configuration is better when using C-p or C-n and
alike.

Apreciate anyone's reply.
Sincerely

-- 

Simple is the best.  ;-)

Re: Using the `Win' key as `Ctrl' in Emacs?

[Rob Walker]

Xiaoyong Jin <tootiny@163.com> wrote in message news:<20040616222510.230014f5.tootiny@163.com>...
> Hi, all!
> 
> I'm now learning to use Emacs and I got a problem about keyboard
> layout that my Compaq notepad only have one `Ctrl' key on the left
> and which is so aweful that emacs use a lot of key bindings with
> the `Ctrl' key.
> 
> What I want is using the useless `win' key on the right.  Could
> some one tell me how to do this?
> 
> I now use the xmodmap program to turn the Super_R key to the
> control group.  And it can be use under most programs under X but
> Emacs.

What about something like:

  (define-key key-translation-map [?\s-c] [?\C-c])

in your .emacs - this rebinds super-c to control-c. I don't use
xmodmap, so you may need to use something different instead of [?\s-c]
- use M-x describe-key to find out what.

Rob

Re: Using the `Win' key as `Ctrl' in Emacs?

[Xiaoyong Jin]

On 17 Jun 2004 02:31:54 -0700
rob@tenfoot.org.uk (Rob Walker) wrote:

> Xiaoyong Jin <tootiny@163.com> wrote in message
> news:<20040616222510.230014f5.tootiny@163.com>...
> > Hi, all!
> > 
> > I'm now learning to use Emacs and I got a problem about
> > keyboard layout that my Compaq notepad only have one `Ctrl'
> > key on the left and which is so aweful that emacs use a lot of
> > key bindings with the `Ctrl' key.
> > 
> > What I want is using the useless `win' key on the right. 
> > Could some one tell me how to do this?
> > 
> > I now use the xmodmap program to turn the Super_R key to the
> > control group.  And it can be use under most programs under X
> > but Emacs.
> 
> What about something like:
> 
>   (define-key key-translation-map [?\s-c] [?\C-c])
> 
> in your .emacs - this rebinds super-c to control-c. I don't use
> xmodmap, so you may need to use something different instead of
> [?\s-c]- use M-x describe-key to find out what.
> 
> Rob

You are right.  It's [?\s-c].  But I want to re-map all right
control to right win key.  Because I used to pressing right
control whenever I want to press M-C-f, which I use my right hand
to press M-C and my left hand press f.

It seems that this
(define-key key-translation-map [?\s] [?\C])
is useless in such a case.  And I can't find anything better to
solve my problem.

Or should I used to using one caps lock key to do every job
including keybindings with control?

Thanks,
Sincerely

-- 

Simple is the best.  ;-)

Re: Using the `Win' key as `Ctrl' in Emacs?

[Rob Walker]

> 
> You are right.  It's [?\s-c].  But I want to re-map all right
> control to right win key.  Because I used to pressing right
> control whenever I want to press M-C-f, which I use my right hand
> to press M-C and my left hand press f.
> 
> It seems that this
> (define-key key-translation-map [?\s] [?\C])
> is useless in such a case.  And I can't find anything better to
> solve my problem.
> 
> Or should I used to using one caps lock key to do every job
> including keybindings with control?
> 
> Thanks,
> Sincerely

You need to add a translation for every key combination you want to
use, so for M-C-f, you need:
(define-key key-translation-map [(super meta ?f)] [(control meta ?f)])

If you need a lot of these then you might be better using xmodmap

Rob

Re: Using the `Win' key as `Ctrl' in Emacs?

[Xiaoyong Jin]

On 18 Jun 2004 01:05:27 -0700
rob@tenfoot.org.uk (Rob Walker) wrote:

> > 
> > You are right.  It's [?\s-c].  But I want to re-map all right
> > control to right win key.  Because I used to pressing right
> > control whenever I want to press M-C-f, which I use my right
> > hand to press M-C and my left hand press f.
> > 
> > It seems that this
> > (define-key key-translation-map [?\s] [?\C])
> > is useless in such a case.  And I can't find anything better
> > to solve my problem.
> > 
> > Or should I used to using one caps lock key to do every job
> > including keybindings with control?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Sincerely
> 
> You need to add a translation for every key combination you want
> to use, so for M-C-f, you need:
> (define-key key-translation-map [(super meta ?f)] [(control meta
> ?f)])
> 
> If you need a lot of these then you might be better using
> xmodmap
> 
> Rob

Yes, I've used xmodmap.  I tried this:

xmodmap -e "add control = Super_R"

and it works at most circumstances but Emacs.  :-(
For emacs, super is still the super but not include in control,
while my browser, my terminal and any other program I use consider
that Super_R is one of control group.

So, I think it is a problem of emacs and could only be solved
under emacs own.  And if I need add a translation for every key
combination I want, it's insane, I'm afraid.

-- 

Simple is the best.  ;-)

Re: Using the `Win' key as `Ctrl' in Emacs?

[Gustaf Erikson]

Xiaoyong Jin <tootiny@163.com> writes:

> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:30:35 +0200
> Gustaf Erikson <gustafe+usenet@openbsd.agero.se> wrote:
>

>> Have you tried mapping your caps lock key to Control?
>> 
>> It's the original and best configuration :-)
>> 
>> I think there's an option in XFree86 for this.
>> 
>> /g.
>> 

> Now I'm using caps lock key as left Control as you suggested by
> put these in my XF86Config file:
> Section "InputDevice"
> 	Identifier  "Keyboard0"
> 	Driver      "keyboard"
> 	Option "XkbRules"   "xfree86"
> 	Option "XkbModel" "pc105"    
> 	Option "XkbLayout" "us"  
> 	Option  "XkbOptions" "ctrl:swapcaps"
> EndSection
>
> But I feel real awkward whenever I use the Control key.  For
> example, I try to open a file using C-x C-f, but how could I use
> my left hand to both press caps lock and x and proceed with caps
> lock and f?
>
> Is there anybody using this `original and best configuration'
> could tell me how do you use it, such as which finger press which
> key?

Hmm, I'm using the little finger of my left hand to press the CapsLock
key (bound to Control). This lets me reach C-a, C-e, C-f etc easily
with the other fingers of my left hand. I use the left Alt as Meta
with my left thumb.

It just something that takes getting used to. The upside is that it's
more ergonomical to have the Control key in the same height as the
most used keys used in conjunction with Control.

Original Unix had the Control key where the CapsLock key is
now. Allegedly MS moved Control to the bottom left corner to kill
WordStar or something :-)

/g.

-- 
Gustaf Erikson *  mobile 0733387618 * http://symbiandiaries.com/gustaf

I am not certified to remove asbestos.
                                                        -- Bart Simpson

Re: Using the `Win' key as `Ctrl' in Emacs?

[Jim Ottaway]

>>>>> Xiaoyong Jin <tootiny@163.com> writes:

> Yes, I've used xmodmap.  I tried this:
> xmodmap -e "add control = Super_R"

I have this

xmodmap -e 'keycode 116 = Control_R'
xmodmap -e 'add Control = Control_R'

which works for me for all applications (keycode obtained 
using xev); perhaps this would work for you too? 

-- 
Jim Ottaway

Re: Using the `Win' key as `Ctrl' in Emacs?

[Xiaoyong Jin]

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 10:47:47 +0200
Gustaf Erikson <gustafe+usenet@openbsd.agero.se> wrote:

> Xiaoyong Jin <tootiny@163.com> writes:
> 
> > On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:30:35 +0200
> > Gustaf Erikson <gustafe+usenet@openbsd.agero.se> wrote:
> >
> 
> >> Have you tried mapping your caps lock key to Control?
> >> 
> >> It's the original and best configuration :-)
> >> 
> >> I think there's an option in XFree86 for this.
> >> 
> >> /g.
> >> 
> 
> > Now I'm using caps lock key as left Control as you suggested by
> > put these in my XF86Config file:
> > Section "InputDevice"
> > 	Identifier  "Keyboard0"
> > 	Driver      "keyboard"
> > 	Option "XkbRules"   "xfree86"
> > 	Option "XkbModel" "pc105"    
> > 	Option "XkbLayout" "us"  
> > 	Option  "XkbOptions" "ctrl:swapcaps"
> > EndSection
> >
> > But I feel real awkward whenever I use the Control key.  For
> > example, I try to open a file using C-x C-f, but how could I use
> > my left hand to both press caps lock and x and proceed with caps
> > lock and f?
> >
> > Is there anybody using this `original and best configuration'
> > could tell me how do you use it, such as which finger press which
> > key?
> 
> Hmm, I'm using the little finger of my left hand to press the CapsLock
> key (bound to Control). This lets me reach C-a, C-e, C-f etc easily
> with the other fingers of my left hand. I use the left Alt as Meta
> with my left thumb.
> 
> It just something that takes getting used to. The upside is that it's
> more ergonomical to have the Control key in the same height as the
> most used keys used in conjunction with Control.
> 
> Original Unix had the Control key where the CapsLock key is
> now. Allegedly MS moved Control to the bottom left corner to kill
> WordStar or something :-)

Ah, it's the first time I hear about it.  To be frankly, I never
use the CapsLock key, and for a long time I was wandering why
someone put this useless key here.  ;-)
> 
> /g.
> 
> -- 
> Gustaf Erikson *  mobile 0733387618 * http://symbiandiaries.com/gustaf
> 
> I am not certified to remove asbestos.
>                                                         -- Bart Simpson

Thank you for your detailed explanation.  I now think that I'd
better get used to it.

By the way, do you not use the right Control key?

-- 

Simple is the best.  ;-)

Re: Using the `Win' key as `Ctrl' in Emacs?

[Gustaf Erikson]

Xiaoyong Jin <tootiny@163.com> writes:

> On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 10:47:47 +0200
> Gustaf Erikson <gustafe+usenet@openbsd.agero.se> wrote:
[snip] 
>> Original Unix had the Control key where the CapsLock key is
>> now. Allegedly MS moved Control to the bottom left corner to kill
>> WordStar or something :-)
>
> Ah, it's the first time I hear about it.  To be frankly, I never
> use the CapsLock key, and for a long time I was wandering why
> someone put this useless key here.  ;-)
> Thank you for your detailed explanation.  I now think that I'd
> better get used to it.

Cool!

> By the way, do you not use the right Control key?

Not very often, no.

/g.

-- 
Gustaf Erikson *  mobile 0733387618 * http://symbiandiaries.com/gustaf

MS-Windows: Flawed beyond belief.

Re: Using the `Win' key as `Ctrl' in Emacs?

[Xiaoyong Jin]

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 15:40:10 +0200
Gustaf Erikson <gustafe+usenet@openbsd.agero.se> wrote:

> Xiaoyong Jin <tootiny@163.com> writes:
> 
> > On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 10:47:47 +0200
> > Gustaf Erikson <gustafe+usenet@openbsd.agero.se> wrote:
> [snip] 
> >> Original Unix had the Control key where the CapsLock key is
> >> now. Allegedly MS moved Control to the bottom left corner to kill
> >> WordStar or something :-)
> >
> > Ah, it's the first time I hear about it.  To be frankly, I never
> > use the CapsLock key, and for a long time I was wandering why
> > someone put this useless key here.  ;-)
> > Thank you for your detailed explanation.  I now think that I'd
> > better get used to it.
> 
> Cool!
> 
> > By the way, do you not use the right Control key?
> 
> Not very often, no.
> 
> /g.
> 
> -- 
> Gustaf Erikson *  mobile 0733387618 * http://symbiandiaries.com/gustaf
> 
> MS-Windows: Flawed beyond belief.

Thank you.  ;-)

-- 

Simple is the best.  ;-)

Re: Using the `Win' key as `Ctrl' in Emacs?

[gebser]

At 10:47 (UTC+0200) on Fri, 18 Jun 2004 Gustaf Erikson said:

= Xiaoyong Jin <tootiny@163.com> writes:
= 
= > On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 00:30:35 +0200
= > Gustaf Erikson <gustafe+usenet@openbsd.agero.se> wrote:
= >
= 
= >> Have you tried mapping your caps lock key to Control?
= >> 
= >> It's the original and best configuration :-)
= >> 
= >> I think there's an option in XFree86 for this.
= >> 
= >> /g.
= >> 
= 
= > Now I'm using caps lock key as left Control as you suggested by
= > put these in my XF86Config file:
= > Section "InputDevice"
= > 	Identifier  "Keyboard0"
= > 	Driver      "keyboard"
= > 	Option "XkbRules"   "xfree86"
= > 	Option "XkbModel" "pc105"    
= > 	Option "XkbLayout" "us"  
= > 	Option  "XkbOptions" "ctrl:swapcaps"
= > EndSection
= >
= > But I feel real awkward whenever I use the Control key.  For
= > example, I try to open a file using C-x C-f, but how could I use
= > my left hand to both press caps lock and x and proceed with caps
= > lock and f?
= >
= > Is there anybody using this `original and best configuration'
= > could tell me how do you use it, such as which finger press which
= > key?
= 
= Hmm, I'm using the little finger of my left hand to press the CapsLock
= key (bound to Control). This lets me reach C-a, C-e, C-f etc easily
= with the other fingers of my left hand. I use the left Alt as Meta
= with my left thumb.
= 
= It just something that takes getting used to. The upside is that it's
= more ergonomical to have the Control key in the same height as the
= most used keys used in conjunction with Control.
= 
= Original Unix had the Control key where the CapsLock key is
= now. Allegedly MS moved Control to the bottom left corner to kill
= WordStar or something :-)
= 
= /g.

Moving the left Ctrl key up next to the 'A' key is one of the first
things I do on every computer I get.  It's really the best place for the
Ctrl key.  In fact, I just got a W98 laptop a couple days ago and, after
downloading and installing emacs on it, I did
<http://bmrc.berkeley.edu/people/chaffee/swapnt.html> (NT4 registry
diddling works on W98 for swapping L_Control and CapsLock).

And yeah, WordStar was a great editor.  They obviously had some really
intelligent people design the key combos to control cursor movement and
text editing.  Decades later, there still isn't an editor with a UI so
elegantly designed.  The WordStar command set was almost intuitive as
using a mouse.  

But then along came Micro$oft and somehow all the new keyboards had
moved the left Control key (a pivotal key in WordStar) to the very 
bottom left.  This was like box food manufacturers having builders move 
the stove out of the kitchen to behind the garage and putting a 
microwave where the stove used to be.  Most people stopped using 
WordStar and newbies didn't take to it, all simply because it was so 
uncomfortable to reach that important Control key.

One of the reasons I gravitated to emacs was because it had a
wordstar-mode and that's what I set myself up with initially.  But then
I found that following discussions on customization and elisp on lists
like this one was too confusing to follow because most all of my
keybindings were different from everyone else's.  So, quite reluctantly,
I went to the standard emacs keybindings and now-- a couple decades
later-- there's really no going back to the WordStar bindings.  Maybe in
another hundred years-- if there's still keyboards then-- somebody will
come out with a new editor as powerful as emacs but which uses the
WordStar UI.  Until then, chalk it up to another case of predatory
capitalism defeating common sense.


Happy 7/4,
ken

Re: Using the `Win' key as `Ctrl' in Emacs?

[Kai Grossjohann]

Xiaoyong Jin <tootiny@163.com> writes:

> What I want is using the useless `win' key on the right.  Could
> some one tell me how to do this?
>
> I now use the xmodmap program to turn the Super_R key to the
> control group.  And it can be use under most programs under X but
> Emacs.

You need to make the right 'flag' key into a control key, like so:

clear control
clear mod4
keycode 4711 = Control_R
add control = Control_L Control_R
add mod4 = Foo Bar

First, you say "xmodmap -pm" to see which modifiers Super_R appears
in.  Above, I'm assuming it's mod4.  If Super_R is not mentioned in
any modifier, then just omit the two lines mentioning mod4.

Secondly, you need to find out the keycode of the right 'flag' key,
perhaps by running xev.  Above, I'm assuming the code is 4711.

That's what I use and it works well.

Kai

Re: Using the `Win' key as `Ctrl' in Emacs?

[Kai Grossjohann]

Xiaoyong Jin <tootiny@163.com> writes:

> But I feel real awkward whenever I use the Control key.  For
> example, I try to open a file using C-x C-f, but how could I use
> my left hand to both press caps lock and x and proceed with caps
> lock and f?

I'm sure that Gustav meant to have the Ctrl key to the left of the A
key.  Perhaps that was the case for you already?  In that case, you
would have moved Ctrl to the awkward position below the left shift
key...

Kai

Re: Using the `Win' key as `Ctrl' in Emacs?

[gebser]

At 16:23 (UTC+0800) on Fri, 18 Jun 2004 Xiaoyong Jin said:

= On 18 Jun 2004 01:05:27 -0700
= rob@tenfoot.org.uk (Rob Walker) wrote:
= 
= > > ....
= 
= Yes, I've used xmodmap.  I tried this:
= 
= xmodmap -e "add control = Super_R"
= 

>From "man xmodmap":

One of the more irritating differences between keyboards is the location
of the Control and Shift Lock keys.  A common use of xmodmap is to swap
these two keys as follows:
                                                                                
            !
            ! Swap Caps_Lock and Control_L
            !
            remove Lock = Caps_Lock
            remove Control = Control_L
            keysym Control_L = Caps_Lock
            keysym Caps_Lock = Control_L
            add Lock = Caps_Lock
            add Control = Control_L

Put the above code into ~/.Xmodmap and it should be read and executed 
when you log into an X session (by /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc).  This is a 
good thing to do when you have an account on someone else's UNIX system.

For my own machines (e.g., at home) I simply copy
/lib/kbd/keymaps/i386/qwerty/us.map.gz to
/lib/kbd/keymaps/i386/qwerty/ctrlcaps.gz, then edit the latter to get
the same effect as the ~/.Xmodmap code (above).  This requires changing 
only two of its lines to these:

keycode  29 = Caps_Lock
keycode  58 = Control

(Make sure that these lines don't end with a space character; for some 
reason that screws things up.)

To have ctrlcaps loaded into X (e.g., at bootup), make the appropriate
change in whatever your Linux flavor points to in its /etc/*/init.d/key*
startup script.  On RedHat and similars, edit /etc/sysconfig/keyboard to
read:

KEYTABLE="ctrlcaps"

Pretty much these same steps have worked on a variety of Linux boxes as
well as HPs, Suns, and other Unices.


hth,
ken

Re: Using the `Win' key as `Ctrl' in Emacs?

[Xiaoyong Jin]

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 10:44:26 +0200
Kai Grossjohann <kai@emptydomain.de> wrote:

> Xiaoyong Jin <tootiny@163.com> writes:
> 
> > What I want is using the useless `win' key on the right. 
> > Could
> > some one tell me how to do this?
> >
> > I now use the xmodmap program to turn the Super_R key to the
> > control group.  And it can be use under most programs under X
> > but
> > Emacs.
> 
> You need to make the right 'flag' key into a control key, like
> so:
> 
> clear control
> clear mod4
> keycode 4711 = Control_R
> add control = Control_L Control_R
> add mod4 = Foo Bar
> 
> First, you say "xmodmap -pm" to see which modifiers Super_R
> appears
> in.  Above, I'm assuming it's mod4.  If Super_R is not mentioned
> in
> any modifier, then just omit the two lines mentioning mod4.
> 
> Secondly, you need to find out the keycode of the right 'flag'
> key,
> perhaps by running xev.  Above, I'm assuming the code is 4711.
> 
> That's what I use and it works well.
> 
> Kai
> 
> 
> 

Oh, yeah, it works amazingly.
It's handy to have control key in both hands.

And thank you all who offered me help.

-- 

Simple is the best.  ;-)