From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Making Emacs more newbie friendly Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 05:45:34 +0900 Message-ID: <87d5tvxt3l.fsf@tc-1-100.kawasaki.gol.ne.jp> References: <874qf8d3cy.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> Reply-To: Miles Bader NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1111265361 20769 80.91.229.2 (19 Mar 2005 20:49:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:49:21 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Mar 19 21:49:21 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DCksk-0006sK-L2 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2005 21:49:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DCl9V-000483-Pa for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2005 16:06:33 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DCl9I-00047a-4D for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2005 16:06:20 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DCl9F-00045z-Aw for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2005 16:06:17 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DCl9F-00045w-6O for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2005 16:06:17 -0500 Original-Received: from [203.216.5.72] (helo=smtp02.dentaku.gol.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1DCkpH-0000z5-1s; Sat, 19 Mar 2005 15:45:39 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by smtp02.dentaku.gol.com with esmtp (Dentaku) id 1DCkpE-0000dP-JY; Sun, 20 Mar 2005 05:45:36 +0900 Original-Received: from yokohama2-61-203-152-175.ap.0038.net ([61.203.152.175] helo=tc-1-100.kawasaki.gol.ne.jp) by smtp02.dentaku.gol.com with esmtpa (Dentaku) id 1DCkpD-0000dK-Py; Sun, 20 Mar 2005 05:45:36 +0900 Original-Received: by tc-1-100.kawasaki.gol.ne.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D617F2F68; Sun, 20 Mar 2005 05:45:34 +0900 (JST) Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org System-Type: i686-pc-linux-gnu In-Reply-To: (PT's message of "Sat, 19 Mar 2005 19:01:19 +0100") Original-Lines: 23 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS GOL X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:24992 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:24992 PT writes: > BTW, it seems in the corporate world Eclipse will fill this space > instead of Emacs. It's a self described "universal tool platform - an > open extensible IDE for anything and nothing in particular". When a > newbie tells me he gave up on Emacs because is to alien I usually tell > them to use Eclipse instead. And they usually are happy, because it's > nice, shiny and point-and-clicky. :) FWIW, I've seen a number of beginning programmers start out with Eclipse, be initially impressed, but later move to Emacs. It's hard for me to judge because I've used Emacs for so long, but I kinda understand why -- the sort of "more structured" interface of Eclipse can be initially comforting, but ultimately end up feeling restricting. Once you get used to it, Emacs is far more accessible and straight-forward (for mostly the same reasons that cause it to be less structured). -Miles -- "Nah, there's no bigger atheist than me. Well, I take that back. I'm a cancer screening away from going agnostic and a biopsy away from full-fledged Christian." [Adam Carolla]