From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jambunathan K Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: RFC: Flavors - naming significant sets of customizations Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 12:26:33 +0530 Message-ID: <87d2litm1q.fsf@gmail.com> References: <9fc6b1ae-7cbd-4a17-a9a0-f4af42969312@googlegroups.com> <5592550c-72f1-4e9b-93db-dc7f95742d27@googlegroups.com> <874n6vx2aq.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> <87eh5yitq2.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> <87siuetp12.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1385794709 16828 80.91.229.3 (30 Nov 2013 06:58:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 06:58:29 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 30 07:58:36 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VmeVd-0007AJ-Vc for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2013 07:58:34 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51086 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VmeVd-0001UA-Ft for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2013 01:58:33 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37123) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VmeVP-0001SN-1R for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2013 01:58:23 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VmeVK-0007aH-RP for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2013 01:58:18 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pd0-x236.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c02::236]:37679) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VmeVK-0007ZJ-F8 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Nov 2013 01:58:14 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pd0-f182.google.com with SMTP id v10so14919116pde.13 for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 22:58:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kot+y4wxgBIC0eE9U87WTrQ0WHVOZveB7wk7Kr/yCN4=; b=tw2GXrS9U8/72tuKpf4Bm1qJex5Kfb08kgnUO2VkVtPN3vvIdLqjsLgDdxsVrsrBO9 sTNggWP/ns/3WezLfoIQvwXupXroan8aRsywDL3HIih13DEDGdCVenddoFzh4ooZ4xlc /tV5NzGsQYzXWCOi6F9ahqjxH5zjLGbyQccEXW0VgNpGrFgZoeIyaSu4L3qyypHdF3Wt UHzucbJegxjEGuxxrpzkrTZEacJ3RU5g+EV7FVOHti6Zy4BSvsGXtX9UsGniBfoVjoLU rHNcB44jc0caQam3aatqi/x5UU3ceFqr3mSZHctPGEtV0CQCijpo1RlM0/yO3l5GwXmY NuJQ== X-Received: by 10.66.136.71 with SMTP id py7mr56356006pab.2.1385794693199; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 22:58:13 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from debian-6.05 ([115.242.142.29]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id fk4sm121080993pab.23.2013.11.29.22.58.10 for (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 29 Nov 2013 22:58:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87siuetp12.fsf@gmail.com> (Jambunathan K.'s message of "Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:22:09 +0530") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c02::236 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:94741 Archived-At: Jambunathan K writes: > Story of Orgmode > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Story of Elisp manual =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Another interesting story is that of the Elisp manual. It was initially the work NOT of Richard but couple of students. The students packed enough punch in to their original work that it was bundled with Emacs and to this day the manual continues improving. 1. Pack enough punch, when starting out. 2. Keep a gentle pressure, as the time progresses. (1) and (2) are in no specfic order. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Here it is: URL: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.lang.lisp/9wmmzyPrtwc/pXcOQ8Ll5L= cJ Mailing list: comp.lang.lisp Poster: "Xah Lee" Date: 20/06/2008 Post titled: history of the GNU Emacs Lisp Reference Manual The above URL will die in another 5 or 10 years. I am unable to locate text archives. Here is the relevant text. Start from end of buffer. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Xah Lee writes: does anyone know the history about who are the main persons that wrote the GNU Emacs Lisp Reference Manual? According to the manual itself: http://xahlee.org/elisp/Acknowledgements.html quote: =C2=ABThis manual was written by Robert Krawitz, Bil Lewis, Dan LaLiberte, Richard M. Stallman and Chris Welty, the volunteers of the GNU manual group, in an effort extending over several years. Robert J. Chassell helped to review and edit the manual, with the support of the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, ARPA Order 6082, arranged by Warren A. Hunt, Jr. of Computational Logic, Inc.=C2=BB So, the first author listed are Robert Krawitz and others. Richard Stallman didn't come until after 3 names. Does anyone have some history or reference as to how the manual came together or better picture of who are the main authors? By publishing convention, if i were just to write =E2=80=9Cwritten by xyz et al.=E2=80=9D, that would be Robert Krawitz. But as far as i know the first = few persons listed are little known... anyone got detail? ---------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Bradshaw writes: I suspect that the acknowledgements are correct. For a long time there was no elisp reference manual at all - there was an emacs manual and there were docstrings but that was it. Certainly this was true in the Emacs 17 timeframe. I have some vague memory that there was a period when there was an elisp manual you could get from some different source than emacs, written by, I suppose, these people, but then it got merged. ---------------------------------------------------------------- John Thingstad writes: >From emacs 18 on at least there was a elisp manual. But you had to download it seperatly. (I only started with emacs in 1987) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Knighten writes: =20=20=20=20 Even though I get acknowledged in the manual, my contribution was 20 years ago and my memory is fading. But there is a little bit of information at http://www.gnu.org/bulletings/bull4.html which says: "Thanks to Dan LaLiberte for spearheading the GNU Emacs Lisp Programmers Manual, and to Bill Lewis and Tom Scott who have been working on putting it all together." You can read a little bit about Dan LaLiberte's contribution (as a graduate student at University of Illinois - Urbana Champagne) at his web page: http://www.hypernews.org/~liberte/ and I expect he will be happy to tell you more. I remember exchanging e-mail with him and also recall Bil Lewis (http://www.lambdacs.com/bil/bil.html) being involved, but I don't recall Tom Scott and notice that his name disappeared by the time the manual was actually published. I think that Krawitz and Welty are relatively recent additions to the team and that neither LaLiberte nor Lewis are currently active. My recollection was that as on pretty much all parts of GNU Emacs Stallman's role on the Emacs Lisp manual was as original creator, godfather and critic of all things Emacs. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Xah Lee writes: I've added few more links i found to home pages of some of the other major contributors. http://xahlee.org/emacs/day_one.html ---------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel LaLiberte writes: Thanks to Dan Weinreb for pointing me at this recent exchange. You guys have done a fine job of digging up this ancient history, but I am glad to offer any more tidbits I can recall. Starting with Emacs 17, and transitioning to Emacs 18, I was trying to develop a rather substantial extension and I was forced to learn what I could from the very limited doc strings, and the source itself. I started putting together a document for my own use of all the functions, variables, etc, and at some point started sharing this with others. I didn't think I had time to really finish this documentation, but I recall announcing my offer to coordinate the efforts of others if they would help out. With a group of about a dozen volunteers, we hobbled along for a year or so, and then we learned that Bil Lewis had offered to write up a first draft of the entire manual, which he then did in cooperation with our group. I received his work as it was being written and edited it, reorganizing the material substantially over the next year or two. My graduate research work was delayed as a result, but I was having fun, getting into it and receiving the reward of compliments from grateful readers. I'd have to say that most of the first year of work was overwritten a couple times by this process, so we probably dropped some of the minor acknowledgments as well. Although I had a major hand in every chapter, the one on the Edebug source-level debugger was all mine, of course, since I had written the software. Having mastered everything about the language and environment, it became obvious to me in a flash how to build Edebug, and the first version was hacked out in a couple weeks. This little diversion turned into a major project, and a new subject for my masters research. Shortly before Emacs 19 started to come out, I was finishing up the indexing (including a very useful permuted index) and we were "done" and then RMS wanted to take control. After a few more months of his reediting, cleaning up all my rampant use of passive voice and such, it was published in a two-volume book. Later editions by RMS and others incorporated the Emacs 19 features. I got back into my research and lost touch. Since the web grabbed my attention around 1994, I haven't done much of anything with Emacs, except I continue to be a reluctant user, stuck with emacs bindings to my brain, frustrated by its archaic UI as the world moves on. Now JavaScript is my favorite language, and the web browser would be the environment in which one might do everything, except we are not quite there yet. ----------------------------------------------------------------