Re: emacs or xemacs?

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* Re: emacs or xemacs?
       [not found] <mailman.1031674809.15931.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
@ 2002-09-10 17:34 ` Alex Schroeder
  2002-09-10 18:57   ` Lute Kamstra
  2002-09-10 19:05   ` emacs or xemacs? Stefan Monnier <foo@acm.com>
  2002-09-11  7:51 ` Adam
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Alex Schroeder @ 2002-09-10 17:34 UTC (permalink / raw)


"Aurelio" <arele@wanadoo.es> writes:

> Hello!!! First of all, you must be patient with my english writing...
> Thanks!!!! 
> I am going to use emcas. I usually use VIM but now it´s time to
> change... And here´s my first ask: emacs or xemacs??? What is the
> difference?? I think emacs21 have a good graphic display... But is
> xemacs more usefull??? 

Nobody knows.  They are both actively developped.  You can try
news://alt.religion.emacs for the definite answer.  :)

Alex.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: emacs or xemacs?
  2002-09-10 17:34 ` emacs or xemacs? Alex Schroeder
@ 2002-09-10 18:57   ` Lute Kamstra
  2002-09-10 20:04     ` Henrik Enberg
  2002-09-10 20:48     ` No HTML mails in Gnus (was: emacs or xemacs?) Alex Schroeder
  2002-09-10 19:05   ` emacs or xemacs? Stefan Monnier <foo@acm.com>
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Lute Kamstra @ 2002-09-10 18:57 UTC (permalink / raw)


Alex Schroeder <alex@emacswiki.org> writes:

> "Aurelio" <arele@wanadoo.es> writes:
> 
> > Hello!!! First of all, you must be patient with my english writing...
> > Thanks!!!! 
> > I am going to use emcas. I usually use VIM but now it´s time to
> > change... And here´s my first ask: emacs or xemacs??? What is the
> > difference?? I think emacs21 have a good graphic display... But is
> > xemacs more usefull??? 
> 
> Nobody knows.  They are both actively developped.  You can try
> news://alt.religion.emacs for the definite answer.  :)

Hey, no HTML!  How did you manage to remove it in your reply?  

Lute.

-- 
(spook) => "Yukon Panama lock picking"
(insert-file-contents "~/.signature") => (error "`~/.signature' too rude")

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: emacs or xemacs?
  2002-09-10 18:57   ` Lute Kamstra
@ 2002-09-10 20:04     ` Henrik Enberg
  2002-09-10 20:40       ` Lute Kamstra
  2002-09-10 20:48     ` No HTML mails in Gnus (was: emacs or xemacs?) Alex Schroeder
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Henrik Enberg @ 2002-09-10 20:04 UTC (permalink / raw)


Lute Kamstra <Lute.Kamstra@cwi.nl> writes:

> Alex Schroeder <alex@emacswiki.org> writes:
>
>> "Aurelio" <arele@wanadoo.es> writes:
>> 
>> > I am going to use emcas. I usually use VIM but now it´s time to
>> > change... And here´s my first ask: emacs or xemacs??? What is the
>> > difference?? I think emacs21 have a good graphic display... But is
>> > xemacs more usefull??? 
>> 
>> Nobody knows.  They are both actively developped.  You can try
>> news://alt.religion.emacs for the definite answer.  :)
>
> Hey, no HTML!  How did you manage to remove it in your reply?  

The OP sent a multipart message with both html and plain text.  In Gnus
you could set `mm-discouraged-alternatives' to get rid of crappy html.

-- 
Booting... /vmemacs.el

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: emacs or xemacs?
  2002-09-10 20:04     ` Henrik Enberg
@ 2002-09-10 20:40       ` Lute Kamstra
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Lute Kamstra @ 2002-09-10 20:40 UTC (permalink / raw)


Henrik Enberg <henrik+news@enberg.org> writes:

[...]

> The OP sent a multipart message with both html and plain text.  In Gnus
> you could set `mm-discouraged-alternatives' to get rid of crappy html.

Ah yes, that works.  I learned my new thing for today.  Thanks.

Lute.

-- 
(spook) => "USCODE colonel ASO"
(insert-file-contents "~/.signature") => (error "`~/.signature' too rude")

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* No HTML mails in Gnus (was: emacs or xemacs?)
  2002-09-10 18:57   ` Lute Kamstra
  2002-09-10 20:04     ` Henrik Enberg
@ 2002-09-10 20:48     ` Alex Schroeder
  2002-09-10 21:06       ` Lute Kamstra
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Alex Schroeder @ 2002-09-10 20:48 UTC (permalink / raw)


Lute Kamstra <Lute.Kamstra@cwi.nl> writes:

> Alex Schroeder <alex@emacswiki.org> writes:
>
>> "Aurelio" <arele@wanadoo.es> writes:
>> 
>> > Hello!!! First of all, you must be patient with my english writing...
>> > Thanks!!!! 
>> > I am going to use emcas. I usually use VIM but now it´s time to
>> > change... And here´s my first ask: emacs or xemacs??? What is the
>> > difference?? I think emacs21 have a good graphic display... But is
>> > xemacs more usefull??? 
>> 
>> Nobody knows.  They are both actively developped.  You can try
>> news://alt.religion.emacs for the definite answer.  :)
>
> Hey, no HTML!  How did you manage to remove it in your reply?  

Hm?  Maybe you want to read a bit about Gnus -- especially since you
already use it!

http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?MimeTypesWithGnus

Alex.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: No HTML mails in Gnus (was: emacs or xemacs?)
  2002-09-10 20:48     ` No HTML mails in Gnus (was: emacs or xemacs?) Alex Schroeder
@ 2002-09-10 21:06       ` Lute Kamstra
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Lute Kamstra @ 2002-09-10 21:06 UTC (permalink / raw)

Alex Schroeder <alex@emacswiki.org> writes:

[...]

> Hm?  Maybe you want to read a bit about Gnus -- especially since you
> already use it!

That's one of my tricksies.  I let Outlook insert funny User-Agent
headers.

> http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?MimeTypesWithGnus

Well, actually I read the Gnus manual once.  It's just that only the
things I was interested in at the time really registered.  After that,
I just started to learn new things as I encountered them or when I
felt that I needed them.  It's a very lazy attitude, I know, but
laziness is supposed to make you do smart things, right?

Anyway, thanks for the pointer (and for maintaining the Wiki).

Lute.

-- 
(spook) => "Vickie Weaver Janet Reno broadside"
(insert-file-contents "~/.signature") => (error "`~/.signature' too rude")

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: emacs or xemacs?
  2002-09-10 17:34 ` emacs or xemacs? Alex Schroeder
  2002-09-10 18:57   ` Lute Kamstra
@ 2002-09-10 19:05   ` Stefan Monnier <foo@acm.com>
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier <foo@acm.com> @ 2002-09-10 19:05 UTC (permalink / raw)


>> Hello!!! First of all, you must be patient with my english writing...
>> Thanks!!!! 
>> I am going to use emcas. I usually use VIM but now it´s time to
>> change... And here´s my first ask: emacs or xemacs??? What is the
>> difference?? I think emacs21 have a good graphic display... But is
>> xemacs more usefull??? 
> Nobody knows.  They are both actively developped.  You can try
> news://alt.religion.emacs for the definite answer.  :)

C'mon Alex!
Everybody knows that Emacs rules!

        Stefan

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: emacs or xemacs?
       [not found] <mailman.1031674809.15931.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
  2002-09-10 17:34 ` emacs or xemacs? Alex Schroeder
@ 2002-09-11  7:51 ` Adam
  2002-09-11  8:21   ` Aurelio
                     ` (3 more replies)
  1 sibling, 4 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Adam @ 2002-09-11  7:51 UTC (permalink / raw)


On Tuesday 10 September 2002 17:18, Aurelio wrote:

> Hello!!! First of all, you must be patient with my english writing...
> Thanks!!!!
> I am going to use emcas. I usually use VIM but now it´s time to
> change... And here´s my first ask: emacs or xemacs??? What is the
> difference?? I think emacs21 have a good graphic display... But is
> xemacs more usefull???
> Thanks

If you have to use a Windoze system, XEmacs is easier to install. But if 
you're using Cygwin it's not difficult to install GNU Emacs. On a proper 
OS, they're both about the same to install. (Most Linux distros come with 
both now.)

But GNU Emacs is the One True Emacs!

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* RE: emacs or xemacs?
  2002-09-11  7:51 ` Adam
@ 2002-09-11  8:21   ` Aurelio
  2002-09-11  8:21   ` Aurelio
                     ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Aurelio @ 2002-09-11  8:21 UTC (permalink / raw)


Well, I am running Debian 3.0 testing... So, I have no problems to find
the packages... Ok!!! I will try Gnu emacs21... Thanks!!!!

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* RE: emacs or xemacs?
  2002-09-11  7:51 ` Adam
  2002-09-11  8:21   ` Aurelio
@ 2002-09-11  8:21   ` Aurelio
  2002-09-11  8:34   ` Klaus Berndl
  2002-09-11 21:36   ` Rodney Sparapani
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Aurelio @ 2002-09-11  8:21 UTC (permalink / raw)


Well, I am running Debian 3.0 testing... So, I have no problems to find
the packages... Ok!!! I will try Gnu emacs21... Thanks!!!!

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: emacs or xemacs?
  2002-09-11  7:51 ` Adam
  2002-09-11  8:21   ` Aurelio
  2002-09-11  8:21   ` Aurelio
@ 2002-09-11  8:34   ` Klaus Berndl
  2002-09-11 10:35     ` Sacha Chua
  2002-09-11 22:25     ` Jochen Küpper
  2002-09-11 21:36   ` Rodney Sparapani
  3 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Klaus Berndl @ 2002-09-11  8:34 UTC (permalink / raw)

On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, a24061@void.yahoo.void.com wrote:

>  On Tuesday 10 September 2002 17:18, Aurelio wrote:
>  
> > Hello!!! First of all, you must be patient with my english writing...
> > Thanks!!!!
> > I am going to use emcas. I usually use VIM but now it´s time to
> > change... And here´s my first ask: emacs or xemacs??? What is the
> > difference?? I think emacs21 have a good graphic display... But is
> > xemacs more usefull???
> > Thanks
>  
>  If you have to use a Windoze system, XEmacs is easier to install. But if 
>  you're using Cygwin it's not difficult to install GNU Emacs. On a proper 
>  OS, they're both about the same to install. (Most Linux distros come with 
>  both now.)

AFAIK this not correct: XEmacs has this nifty net-installer ported from Cygwin
to the needs of XEmacs whereas GNU Emacs must still be installed by
downloading one big archive (regardless of source-distrib or precompiled
binaries), extracing it, reading the READMe and so on...

Though i prefer GNU Emacs as editor IMHO the installation of XEmacs is much
more convenient than GNU Emacs (ok, i must admit, downloading the archive,
extracting it and some small steps more are not really difficult but
nevertheless.... :-)

Of course all this is only related to Windows systems!

Ciao,
Klaus

>  
>  But GNU Emacs is the One True Emacs!

-- 
Klaus Berndl			mailto: klaus.berndl@sdm.de
sd&m AG				http://www.sdm.de
software design & management	
Thomas-Dehler-Str. 27, 81737 München, Germany
Tel +49 89 63812-392, Fax -220

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: emacs or xemacs?
  2002-09-11  8:34   ` Klaus Berndl
@ 2002-09-11 10:35     ` Sacha Chua
  2002-09-11 22:25     ` Jochen Küpper
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Sacha Chua @ 2002-09-11 10:35 UTC (permalink / raw)


Klaus Berndl <Klaus.Berndl@raibau.raiffeisen.at> writes:

> AFAIK this not correct: XEmacs has this nifty net-installer ported from Cygwin
> to the needs of XEmacs whereas GNU Emacs must still be installed by
> downloading one big archive (regardless of source-distrib or precompiled
> binaries), extracing it, reading the READMe and so on...

apt-get install emacs21

.. and then apt-get install any of the Emacs packages I want, or
download the .els or source archives and play with them myself.

I love Debian. =)

I understand that the binary distribution of Emacs is also easy to
install if you're using RPMs.

-- 
Sacha Chua <sacha@free.net.ph> - 4 BS CS Ateneo geekette
interests: emacs, gnu/linux, wearables, teaching compsci

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: emacs or xemacs?
  2002-09-11  8:34   ` Klaus Berndl
  2002-09-11 10:35     ` Sacha Chua
@ 2002-09-11 22:25     ` Jochen Küpper
  2002-09-12  8:29       ` Klaus Berndl
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Jochen Küpper @ 2002-09-11 22:25 UTC (permalink / raw)


On 11 Sep 2002 10:34:06 +0200 Klaus Berndl wrote:

Klaus> AFAIK this not correct: XEmacs has this nifty net-installer
Klaus> ported from Cygwin to the needs of XEmacs whereas GNU Emacs
Klaus> must still be installed by downloading one big archive
Klaus> (regardless of source-distrib or precompiled binaries),
Klaus> extracing it, reading the READMe and so on...

Actually Emacs is (3 packages) in the standard Cygwin install nowadays...

Greetings,
Jochen
-- 
Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit                http://www.Jochen-Kuepper.de
    Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité                GnuPG key: 44BCCD8E
        Sex, drugs and rock-n-roll

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: emacs or xemacs?
  2002-09-11 22:25     ` Jochen Küpper
@ 2002-09-12  8:29       ` Klaus Berndl
  2002-09-12  9:14         ` Zhongtao Zhu
                           ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Klaus Berndl @ 2002-09-12  8:29 UTC (permalink / raw)


On 11 Sep 2002, Jochen Küpper wrote:

>  On 11 Sep 2002 10:34:06 +0200 Klaus Berndl wrote:
>  
>  Klaus> AFAIK this not correct: XEmacs has this nifty net-installer
>  Klaus> ported from Cygwin to the needs of XEmacs whereas GNU Emacs
>  Klaus> must still be installed by downloading one big archive
>  Klaus> (regardless of source-distrib or precompiled binaries),
>  Klaus> extracing it, reading the READMe and so on...
>  
>  Actually Emacs is (3 packages) in the standard Cygwin install nowadays...

Oooops... AFAIK there is no official release port of GNU Emacs to Cygwin...
Is this not true anymore?? Is there now an official port of GNU Emacs 21.X to
cygwin (downloadable binaries build with cygwin and installable by the cygwin
setup)?

Ciao,klaus

-- 
Klaus Berndl			mailto: klaus.berndl@sdm.de
sd&m AG				http://www.sdm.de
software design & management	
Thomas-Dehler-Str. 27, 81737 München, Germany
Tel +49 89 63812-392, Fax -220

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: emacs or xemacs?
  2002-09-12  8:29       ` Klaus Berndl
@ 2002-09-12  9:14         ` Zhongtao Zhu
  2002-09-12 14:23         ` Jochen Küpper
  2002-09-12 15:51         ` D. Goel
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Zhongtao Zhu @ 2002-09-12  9:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  Cc: Klaus Berndl

Klaus Berndl <Klaus.Berndl@raibau.raiffeisen.at> writes:

> On 11 Sep 2002, Jochen Küpper wrote:
> 
> >  On 11 Sep 2002 10:34:06 +0200 Klaus Berndl wrote:
> >  
> >  Klaus> AFAIK this not correct: XEmacs has this nifty net-installer
> >  Klaus> ported from Cygwin to the needs of XEmacs whereas GNU Emacs
> >  Klaus> must still be installed by downloading one big archive
> >  Klaus> (regardless of source-distrib or precompiled binaries),
> >  Klaus> extracing it, reading the READMe and so on...
> >  
> >  Actually Emacs is (3 packages) in the standard Cygwin install nowadays...
> 
> Oooops... AFAIK there is no official release port of GNU Emacs to Cygwin...
> Is this not true anymore?? Is there now an official port of GNU Emacs 21.X to
> cygwin (downloadable binaries build with cygwin and installable by the cygwin
> setup)?
> 
> Ciao,klaus

I did find a cygwin release, in a local mirror ftp site, which
contains Emacs-21.2-7 of both its source and pre-complied
binaries. The cygwin as a whole can be net-installed by a setup.exe,
though the default options are set to exclude the Emacs.

You may check it by visiting the wet site of RedHat.
-- 
Zhongtao Zhu                          Tel: +86 10 6278 2266
Department of Computer, Tsinghua University, Beijing, China

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: emacs or xemacs?
  2002-09-12  8:29       ` Klaus Berndl
  2002-09-12  9:14         ` Zhongtao Zhu
@ 2002-09-12 14:23         ` Jochen Küpper
  2002-09-12 19:33           ` maierh
  2002-09-12 15:51         ` D. Goel
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Jochen Küpper @ 2002-09-12 14:23 UTC (permalink / raw)


On 12 Sep 2002 10:29:43 +0200 Klaus Berndl wrote:

Klaus> On 11 Sep 2002, Jochen Küpper wrote:

>> Actually Emacs is (3 packages) in the standard Cygwin install nowadays...

Klaus> Oooops... AFAIK there is no official release port of GNU Emacs
Klaus> to Cygwin... Is this not true anymore?? Is there now an
Klaus> official port of GNU Emacs 21.X to cygwin (downloadable
Klaus> binaries build with cygwin and installable by the cygwin
Klaus> setup)?

Well, what's "offocial"? :)) Emacs is in the standard cygwin package
hirarchy nowadays (but yes, only recently added).

It needs some patching and apparently the company who's employee fixed
it for cygwin is somewhat slow to sign the copyright assignments to
FSF... (Which is not so strange if it's their first time:)

Greetings,
Jochen
-- 
Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit                http://www.Jochen-Kuepper.de
    Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité                GnuPG key: 44BCCD8E
        Sex, drugs and rock-n-roll

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: emacs or xemacs?
  2002-09-12 14:23         ` Jochen Küpper
@ 2002-09-12 19:33           ` maierh
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: maierh @ 2002-09-12 19:33 UTC (permalink / raw)



"Jochen Küpper" <jochen@unc.edu> writes:

> Klaus> Oooops... AFAIK there is no official release port of GNU Emacs
> Klaus> to Cygwin... Is this not true anymore?? Is there now an
> Klaus> official port of GNU Emacs 21.X to cygwin (downloadable
> Klaus> binaries build with cygwin and installable by the cygwin
> Klaus> setup)?
>
> Well, what's "offocial"? :)) Emacs is in the standard cygwin package
> hirarchy nowadays (but yes, only recently added).
>
> It needs some patching and apparently the company who's employee fixed
> it for cygwin is somewhat slow to sign the copyright assignments to
> FSF... (Which is not so strange if it's their first time:)


Wow. Just tried it:

  In GNU Emacs 21.2 (i686-pc-cygwin, X toolkit)
   of 2002-09-12 on hestia
  configured using `configure  \
    --prefix=/usr --bindir=/usr/bin --sysconfdir=/etc \
    --libexecdir=/usr/sbin --localstatedir=/var \
    --datadir=/usr/share --without-toolkit-scroll-bars'
  
  ...
  
  Important settings:
    value of $LC_ALL: nil
    value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
    value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
    value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
    value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
    value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
    value of $LC_TIME: nil
    value of $LANG: C
    locale-coding-system: iso-latin-1
    default-enable-multibyte-characters: t
  GNU Emacs 21.2 (i686-pc-cygwin, X toolkit) of 2002-09-12 on hestia

It works really out of the box. Anyway this is not a NTEmacs. This is
a cygwin emacs that is compiled with the cygwin library. NTEmacs is
compiled with the -mno-cygwin flag. The cygwin emacs is a pure X11
emacs. Anyway it might be useful for debugging NTEmacs with gdb. (Do
you remember the long discussion between Eli and Stefan for some
months.)

Harald

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: emacs or xemacs?
  2002-09-12  8:29       ` Klaus Berndl
  2002-09-12  9:14         ` Zhongtao Zhu
  2002-09-12 14:23         ` Jochen Küpper
@ 2002-09-12 15:51         ` D. Goel
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: D. Goel @ 2002-09-12 15:51 UTC (permalink / raw)


> 
> Oooops... AFAIK there is no official release port of GNU Emacs to Cygwin...
> Is this not true anymore?? Is there now an official port of GNU Emacs 21.X to
> cygwin (downloadable binaries build with cygwin and installable by the cygwin
> setup)?
> 

I built emacs21 on an NT a few months ago---using cygwin tools.. it
had pretty good instructions on how to go about it.

Also, the cygwin install itself probably has an "install emacs"
option--but now sure about that..

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

* Re: emacs or xemacs?
  2002-09-11  7:51 ` Adam
                     ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2002-09-11  8:34   ` Klaus Berndl
@ 2002-09-11 21:36   ` Rodney Sparapani
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Rodney Sparapani @ 2002-09-11 21:36 UTC (permalink / raw)


As far as installation goes, I'd definitely say that XEmacs is easier. 
 Especially, for packages and when you run into problems.  But, I use 
both now.

-- 
Rodney Sparapani              Medical College of Wisconsin
Sr. Biostatistician           Patient Care & Outcomes Research
rsparapa@mcw.edu              http://www.mcw.edu/pcor
Was 'Name That Tune' rigged?  WWLD -- What Would Lombardi Do

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2002-09-12 19:33 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 19+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
     [not found] <mailman.1031674809.15931.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2002-09-10 17:34 ` emacs or xemacs? Alex Schroeder
2002-09-10 18:57   ` Lute Kamstra
2002-09-10 20:04     ` Henrik Enberg
2002-09-10 20:40       ` Lute Kamstra
2002-09-10 20:48     ` No HTML mails in Gnus (was: emacs or xemacs?) Alex Schroeder
2002-09-10 21:06       ` Lute Kamstra
2002-09-10 19:05   ` emacs or xemacs? Stefan Monnier <foo@acm.com>
2002-09-11  7:51 ` Adam
2002-09-11  8:21   ` Aurelio
2002-09-11  8:21   ` Aurelio
2002-09-11  8:34   ` Klaus Berndl
2002-09-11 10:35     ` Sacha Chua
2002-09-11 22:25     ` Jochen Küpper
2002-09-12  8:29       ` Klaus Berndl
2002-09-12  9:14         ` Zhongtao Zhu
2002-09-12 14:23         ` Jochen Küpper
2002-09-12 19:33           ` maierh
2002-09-12 15:51         ` D. Goel
2002-09-11 21:36   ` Rodney Sparapani

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